Joining the show this week is a journalist turned executive leadership expert. Having interviewed over 1,000 CEOs over the course of his 30 year career, this guest is none other than the Senior Managing Director at The ExCo Group, Adam Bryant.
Bryant shares his insights from over 30 years of interviewing leaders and exploring the paradoxes of leadership. From his framework for authenticity to understanding the "optimal band of busyness," Adam discusses what motivates effective leaders to lead and how they navigate the ever-increasing complexity of today’s challenges.
Takeaways:
Simplifying Complexity: Effective leaders excel at breaking down intricate problems into clear, digestible priorities for their teams. Bryant emphasizes the importance of framing challenges in a way that inspires clarity and action, ensuring everyone knows where they’re going and how to get there.
The Authenticity Framework: Authenticity is about aligning how people perceive you with how you intend to show up as a leader. It’s not about oversharing emotions but about communicating your values and the stories behind them to build trust and credibility.
Leadership Paradoxes: Bryant explores the delicate balancing acts leaders must navigate, such as being confident yet humble or compassionate while holding people accountable. He highlights the importance of contextual decision-making to manage these complexities effectively.
OBOB (Optimal Band of Busyness): Leaders thrive when they find their "optimal band of busyness"—a balance that keeps them engaged without overwhelming or under-stimulating them. Bryant shares how this concept applies to both leadership and post-exit planning.
Team Trust Building: Building trust within teams starts with vulnerability and open communication. Bryant describes exercises like leadership user manuals and storytelling to help team members see each other as human beings, fostering deeper connections and collaboration.
Why Leaders Lead: Many leaders are driven by transformative early-life experiences, whether adversity, immigrant stories, or the influence of extraordinary parents. Bryant reflects on how these motivations shape leaders’ decisions and their approach to challenges.
Quote of the Show:
“ I always think about leadership as a series of paradoxes or contradictions or balancing acts. It's never about one thing. And I think to be an effective leader, you have to be comfortable in those paradoxes.” - Adam Bryant
Links:
Twitter: https://x.com/adambbryant
Website: https://www.excoleadership.com/
Ways to Tune In:
Spotify:
Apple Podcasts:
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7c6328f0-9b42-41db-8fe2-d263b4fbb261
Transistor: https://podcast.notanotherceo.com/
Episode Transcript
Today's guest is a thought leader and authority on executive management, leadership development, and how the best CEOs operate. He was a journalist for over 30 years, created the corner office column for the New York Times, He interviewed over 500 CEOs for that column over the course of almost a decade. I think i've actually read almost every one of those those interviews. You could say he's the GOAT when it comes to interviewing CEOs. Actually the corner office column was the inspiration for this podcast. He's written four books on leadership, quick and nimble, the CEO test, Leap to leader and the corner office. He continues to interview leaders and he now publishes those interviews on LinkedIn. In 2017, he joined a firm that does executive coaching and leadership development for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. Please welcome senior managing director at the Xco group, Adam Bryant.
Adam: David, great to see you again. Um, always enjoy our [00:01:00] conversation. So I've been looking forward to this, of
David: Uh, I, I, I think I told you this, but you know, really, the corner office forever. I, I read it for a decade. And then I took a step back from operating day to day and I wanted to share back with the community that was The inspiration and the format for this is like, let's not talk about people's companies.
Let's talk about leadership and, and, um, and, and talk about them and their background. So thank you for being that inspiration, being a friend to me and, and, uh, and helping me as I've been getting this off the ground.
Adam: course. And one of the joys of doing corner office for that all those years was, uh, getting to meet people like you. So, uh, I'm an, I'm an introvert. So networking doesn't come naturally to me. So interviewing CEOs and so many great friendships have come out of it. So it
David: That my parents, I think, still have that article framed in their, in their house in Israel. Uh, so,
Adam: means a lot.
David: so let's first thing, you know, so [00:02:00] you've interviewed, I mean, hundreds for the corner office, but then hundreds more at Xco and worked with all these great CEOs. What do you think are. The common attributes the best CEOs that you've interviewed and, and worked with.
Adam: Sure. And, you know, it's one of those things we could talk for hours about this. I mean, you sort of need three, 300 skills, like to be an effective CEO, but. If I had to pick three, I think I would start with like, you have to be able to simplify complexity. Um, it's just sort of a requirement, a skill, a habit of mind, because I think a lot of leadership does come down to those moments, right?
And it's like you on a stage and an all hands meeting, and you kind of have to answer the kind of questions that little kids ask in the backseat, right? Like, where are we going? How are we going to get there? When are we going to get there? Right. And like, and what are the challenges we're going to face?
And, and so that ability as a leader to [00:03:00] be able to take the complexity of the world, their industry, their company, and just boil it down to folks where we're going, you know, these are the three main things we're going to do to win. These are the hills we got to overcome. This is how we're going to keep score.
Like to be able to do that. You simply have to be able to do that if you're going to be an effective leader. The second thing I'll mention is I think it's become more important in the last four years, but just this whole notion of like authenticity and who are you as a leader? Um, you know, we're hearing all these words about humanity and vulnerability and transparency, but what does that really mean?
Um, and I also go back to one of those leadership moments. You're on a stage, like if somebody asked you, Who are you as a leader? Just having a clear answer for, for what you would say. And I don't tell people how to answer that question, but I do have a framework, which is, I think you stand up there and say, look, I really appreciate the question.
These are the three values that are most important to me as a [00:04:00] leader. Um, and you don't just stop there. You have to explain why they're important to you. Um, cause it's very easy to play, you know, fridge magnet poetry and come up with a bunch of words that sound good. Right. But to make them real, you have to be say, look, these are the values that are important to me, and I want to tell you the stories about how they became important to me, and then ideally you can tie those into the company's own values and mission, and I think that really gives some dimension to you as a leader.
And the third thing I'll mention, I, you know, I always think about leadership as a series of paradoxes or contradictions or balancing acts. It's never about one thing. And I think to be an effective leader, you have to be comfortable in those paradoxes, in those balancing acts, you know, you've got to be.
Confident, but humble. You've got to be compassionate, but demanding. And it's all about like knowing contextually what the right response is. Um, and the one I've been thinking a lot about lately is, [00:05:00] especially with this so much disruption, so much uncertainty in the, in the world. I think one of the toughest paradoxes for leaders is to have the confidence and the courage to make a decision, to make a bet.
Right? To say, we're going left, we're not going right. Yet, at the same time, always be challenging your own assumptions. about that because, you know, we've all met people who are like super confident, but they don't really question themselves, right? And some people questions and question themselves so much that it's paralyzing and they actually can't make a decision.
And so I think the best leaders can make a decision yet at the same time are always saying, is it the right decision, right? Is there something that we're not thinking about? Um, so to me, if I had to call out three things, it would be those things like simplifying complexity. Being clear on what authenticity means and like how you would answer that.
And thirdly, just being comfortable in these paradoxes.
David: It's interesting because I think when you say those things, I imagine the CEOs [00:06:00] that I've interviewed, that I've interacted with, those three things, it actually doesn't matter what industry, what size, what country. Like, Those three things are so like, you can boil it down. It's really interesting. Cause I, I actually, I think the authenticity actually of all of those things, that for me is something that I think is hard for a lot of. Especially first time leaders and CEOs, because they feel like they have to be someone different than who they naturally are. They, they almost feel like I have to be the leader and I have to present myself this way, otherwise people aren't going to respect me. And, and, uh, maybe they don't even realize that that's how people already see them just by their title.
And it's almost the authenticity that they need to bring it back to. Being a real human being. I don't know. Does that make sense?
Adam: It totally does. And I think some of the other traps [00:07:00] that people fall into, one is what you just mentioned. It's like, I'm a CEO, I'm a leader now. It's almost like they have to put on a suit, right? And become somebody that. They're not, and people can smell that from a mile away, right? Um, so that's not going to work.
I think, um, another trap people fall into is like, okay, I've got to be authentic, right? So I'm in a really bad mood today, but I want to be authentic. So I want everybody to know I'm in a bad mood, right? And, and that's not what authenticity means. Um, and I'm borrowing this from one of our coaches at my firm, but he had this great insight.
Authenticity, what it really means is that people. Perceive you as you want them to perceive you, right? Because there's often a gap between how we think we're showing up in the world and how people perceive us. Like, that's just natural. That's always there. But as much as you can close that gap that people are seeing you the way you want them to see you.
That's authenticity, right? Like there's some, you know, being intentional about what you want to project about yourself as a [00:08:00] leader. And I think that's a good framework too, because again, a lot of people just think, well, authenticity, it's like, I had a really bad day and everybody's going to know it.
David: the other one that, that, that resonates a lot with me is the simplifying these complex concepts or situations or issues. And when you say on stage, I think about myself and my career. In the early part of my career, I would get on stage or in front of my team and share all the detail and all the messy stuff.
And I felt like if I make it too simple, I'm not treating them with enough kind of trust or respect and they're not going to get it. But then you realize I'm talking to hundreds of people you have to come in at some lowest common denominator to get everyone behind a single That took me a long time, actually, to get to a place where I could simplify it and feel like it was, um, [00:09:00] still, uh, deep enough that it could be useful.
You know what I
Adam: Yeah, yeah. No, it's such a good point. And I heard a wonderful sort of metaphor or insight from a CEO that nails the point that you just described. Um, and his thing was, he said, you could have a room full of Einsteins, literally the smartest people on the planet, but there's, there's some quirk about the human brain, like, The bigger the audience, the more the collective IQ drops, right?
And so you have to like, you know, three bullet points, big fonts, like keep it super simple. Uh, guy named Marcus Ryu, who, uh, was CEO of Guidewire, but he told me, he told me that. And honestly, I've thought about it ever since. And it's so true, right? Like again, super smart people, one on one, they would be totally with you while you're giving that them that complexity.
But there's something about a bigger audience. Um, you just have to keep it simple.
David: Wow, Marcus, I saw him speak at an event earlier this year, and [00:10:00] he's the only speaker ever that I, uh, Actually ran to after their talk ever.
Adam: How's that right?
David: to him, Marcus, that was the best presentation I've ever seen on entrepreneurship, founding a company. He had this great slide. I don't know if you saw it.
He, they put up like a video recently about it. He had this great slide that he said he showed it every all hands. And it was a picture of a guy doing a pickaxe into a mountain face. And he said, every all hands, he would show the pickaxe picture. And he said, every, every all hand, the new person, some new person would say, wow, okay, what are we digging toward?
What, what's on the other side of the rock face? And he said, more rock. That's best line I ever, you know, and he, and, and, uh, anyway, that, that's, but that's a really good, I like, I like that. Cause I do think that's the thing. Like when you, when, when I've been most successful, I've been able to boil down everything to that one thing, that one goal.
[00:11:00] And, um, so I love that. Let me, next question for me is like, when you think about these attributes, And, and you've interviewed a lot of CEOs, but now you've also interviewed a lot of leaders of HR and like a bunch of people. you think that you can be taught these attributes? Can you be taught to be a leader?
Can you be taught to these attributes?
Adam: I think a lot of the skills of being a leader you can teach. Because, look, I've been in the leadership space about 15 years. I could give you my rant about how I think a lot of leadership advice is not helpful, right? And misses the mark for various reasons. Um, but you know, like part of being a leader is understanding like what strategy means, right?
We just talked about simplifying complex, complexity. You can teach people a useful framework for how to think about strategy, right? And you can give people frameworks and insights Building [00:12:00] teams and culture. And that's kind of what I traffic in, right? Like I love soaking up people's wisdom from people like you and sharing it with the rest of the world, because I think that's what like learning how to be a leader is about.
It's like, how do you shorten that learning curve? Right. And leadership ultimately is sort of about wisdom, right? Like either I've seen this movie before or I heard a story from someone about the movie that I'm living through right now. So I can kind of step back and identify it and maybe even steer it to a better outcome.
Um, so I think you can give people a lot of those insights and frameworks to be a more effective leader. What I think Is more a sort of on the nature side, this things people are born with are that drive, right? And it's not just you're born with, I mean, I've interviewed by now more than a thousand leaders and I'm conducting my own sort of informal social experience, trying to understand, like, [00:13:00] why do people want these jobs, right?
Because on paper, like, why would anybody want them? Right? Like, you did it for years, right? It's a hard job. You got, like, you got a million bricks, you got a million bricks on your back. You got to meet payroll. Everybody's got some problem that, you know, they're putting at your feet. Like, they are really, again, like on paper, it's easy to step back and say, why would anybody want these jobs?
And that, and we can talk about that, but I think like, there's people have these sort of different motivations and reasons to want those. And I don't think you can teach those. Like, you've got to be for whatever the different reasons are, but you've got to be wired to choose the harder path. Right?
Because as human beings, we don't necessarily do that. I, um, I read a book this summer is, um, what's his name? Haruki Marukami, a novelist, but he actually wrote a book about running and his, um, cause I needed some motivation to sort of get my running big game back. But there was a great line in [00:14:00] there. He's talking about the human brain.
He said, the human brain is a bargain hunter. And he talked about just means like, it's always just sort of Wired to always look for the easier path, right? And, and that's great because through evolution, it leads to innovation, right? You know, like how do we get that rock up this hill? Oh, let's build a machine, right?
Like that's good. But you know, I think a lot of people are like, not wired to necessarily take the harder path. So you have to ask yourself, why do CEOs, why do leaders who are always taking these Greater challenges. Why do they do that? Um, and that, again, that's kind of like a informal social experiment.
I've been, or at least trying to understand that. Um,
David: the interviews, you always would ask people their back. You always ask people their background and where they come from and their parents. And, um, so what is that? What is that common background that you see that, that gives people the crazy idea to go do this job? Hmm.
Adam: three or four broad [00:15:00] categories. And again, like, I'm not holding this up as like a, you know, like peer reviewed research, right. But I'm just saying like, this is qualitative data and I have interviewed more than a thousand leaders. So, so that's where I'm coming from.
So the biggest category to me. is people who faced adversity early in their life. And there is, you know, I have just heard so many stories of people who grew up in tough circumstances, alcoholic parents, you know, I've heard from so many people the same story where, you know, they may have been growing up in a comfortable middle class lifestyle.
And, uh, and then the father died from a heart attack at a young age. The mother didn't work and didn't have life insurance. So suddenly the family is like, everybody's scrambling to put food on the table. And so many people have, you know, there was one guy interviewed. Um, and he said, I never wanted to put my own family in that same position.
So I think there's these experiences, I mean, not to get too like, you know, [00:16:00] therapist, but I think people have these experiences earlier in their life where they feel like it's almost like at their bone marrow, just getting like zapped with this horrible experience. And then they make a decision, like, I'm never going to feel that again.
And I want to have more control over my destiny and my life. And so from then, like, you know, some people get knocked down and they stay down and some people get knocked down. They say like, I'm getting up and I'm not getting knocked down again. Right. And so there's that drive that comes from that. And, uh, so I, I think that's, to me, one of the big categories.
Another one is some version of the immigrant stories. And I don't mean that literally, but it's sort of this idea of like the first to be on the path. So the story I've heard from many leaders is like, you know, my parents came to this country and I was the first in the family to go to college. Right. And I was the first in the family to do X.
And I think, [00:17:00] I think when you're always the first. In the family to do something at some point that becomes like your comfort zone, right? Like being on that path and forging that path, you actually get comfortable doing it. And so leadership is a natural outgrowth of that, right? Like I've never done this before, but I'll figure it out.
There's a sort of comfort level that comes with that. I think the third category is people who've hit the parent lottery. Just like great parents that were terrific influences. You know, maybe the father or mother was an entrepreneur. And so just like sitting around the dinner table, hearing those stories.
And, uh, I've heard a lot of, uh, people tell me about parents who are interesting sort of pairs, right? So like the entrepreneur father, the artist mother, or, um, you know, one of them was, was a biz, ran their own business, but the other was like a psychologist. So you get that EQ and IQ, um, and so [00:18:00] interesting, like, I've heard that a lot.
And then the final category. I think people, some people are just born with just so much energy, right? And it's almost like the skin exists just to contain that volcanic energy. And business is just a vehicle, right? It's like an outlet to do something and have an impact. And, um, and so I, you know, Those are kind of my four categories.
I don't know if the, you've met so many of them. Does those, do those resonate for
David: I
Adam: you?
David: that captures much every backstory that I've gotten so far is something in those, in those four, you know, my own story definitely comes from hitting the parent lottery mixed with the immigrant story. First generation, it's, it's kind of both combined, maybe with the energy as well. I don't, you know, I don't know, but, but I, but I, I. It's a, but to your point, everyone to do it, what you do find is there's something from one of those things that is so deeply embedded. You said like in their bone [00:19:00] marrow, can feel it. When I asked the question, I'm sure you saw us every time you would ask the question, you know, when you were interviewing people, like you can feel it, that there's something.
And they, if you ask them, they know what that, like, they, they will say, this thing is stuck in my head. And it's there every day. And that's what drives me, but that that's probably the most concise way. I've heard the, summary of the backgrounds.
Adam: Yeah. And I was talking to one of our mentors the other day and he was sharing his story and it was in that first category faced a lot of adversity when he was, was younger and he said something that just kind of like was really stayed with me, you know, and it is about that. Like if you feel something that adversity at a young age, it's kind of like, I don't want to ever feel that again.
Right. And so this, one of our coaches and CEO for many years, she said to me, it's like winning for me in business is not a game, it's existential and it's just like, [00:20:00] wow, okay, like now I get it. Right. Cause again, you just like, I been using this metaphor. Like if you've had experiences when you're younger, where you feel like your bone marrow got fried, like it was that deep in terms of like what you felt and went through, you can imagine like.
And everybody's got their stuff, right? Everybody's got their baggage. Everybody's faced some level of adversity, but like the really tough stuff, I can see it motivating people. It's like, I never, not only do I never want to feel that again, I'm never going to feel that again.
David: Um, just, I want to talk about, you know, that energy one that, that you mentioned, you shared with me a concept. Oh, Bob, that I would love if you could share with the listeners, cause I I've been using it now and I always give you credit. I tell it to so many people. Um, can you share that, that concept?
Adam: Sure. Sure. And I drive my, my poor family crazy with it because my brain works in acronyms. [00:21:00] So I came up with this acronym, OB, OB, or OBOB. Um, and what it, it stands for optimal band of busyness. Um, and it's. The context for this is, you know, my age, my network, whatever, but I find myself, I've been having a lot of conversations with people who are moving from like a full time, 24 7 operating job to their next chapter, call it retirement, whatever.
But some people have a rocky adjustment. And what I've realized, and partly, you know, just some self awareness on my part, I just, Came up with this idea that we all have this optimal band of busyness, like where if you're in that band, like you just feel like, yeah, this is good. I've got a lot going on. And this is about as busy as I want to be.
And if you go above that band, you know, that's when stress comes in. Like you're just stressed out. You're juggling, you're spinning too many plates. That's not optimal. Right. And, but the other thing too, is like sometimes when people retire, like They suddenly go from this 24 7, [00:22:00] 100 mile an hour job to basically like a 20 or 30 mile an hour life.
And they get depressed, they get cranky, you know, the gears start grinding and all that. And so what I always tell people is like, first of all, like, Be aware that you have an OBOB. Everyone's is different. But whatever you do, try and fill up your life with stuff so that you are operating in that band because then you're going to be happier.
You're going to be more productive. You're going to feel like you're kind of in the zone. Um, and especially for successful people who have, um, you know, built companies like you, like you, you have earned the right. To do what more of what you want to do rather than what you should do and need to do. And it's just like, just being aware of that band and, and, and building that portfolio life.
So you got enough stuff going on so that you're happy. Right. And so that's, that's my, Oh, Bob theory.
David: it. I, I think when you, to me, it's [00:23:00] like being in the zone, that is the perfect way to describe it because talked early on when I was trying to figure out what am I going to fill my time with? And, and when we were talking, I was right there coming out of maybe the bottom part of that zone. That zone where I was feeling kind of depressed. I don't get depressed. And I was feeling kind of depressed by not having enough stuff to sink my teeth into. And I had friends saying to me, why don't you just golf? Like, why don't you just, and I said, I don't go, I actually never golfed. I, you know, and they said, yeah, but. You should just do that every day. I said, I'll go, I'll actually, like, I may go crazy, you know? And, and when we talked, it was such, it clicked for me. I went immediately and told my wife, listen to this thing. Adam said, Oh, Bob, you know, and, and that's been. What I'm sharing with a lot of, I'm in this group called Post Exit Founders, and it's 2, 500 founders who have exited their company at one level or another. And [00:24:00] this is the number one topic in that group. Other than investing, whatever, the number one topic is, how do I get in the zone? How did you get in the zone? Should I, you know, is the zone here for me up here or down here? And there's all these threads. exactly that and it's, um, yeah, it's, it's so spot on when you, like, when you described it to me immediate, I was like, yep, that, that makes sense.
Adam: Yeah. And, and, and I think part of the challenge too, because Again, whether it's wiring or the nature of the job or whatever, um, the other metaphor I, I've, I use for myself, just in the spirit of self awareness, like I say, I have a woodchipper brain, right? Like, it's just sort of kind of constantly on and I need to put a lot of like wood into it.
Um, to sort of keep it busy and, uh, productive, because otherwise, like, my arms and legs are going to get caught in the wood chipper. And I was sharing this story with a friend of mine, and he just, like, stopped me and goes, [00:25:00] he goes, you just described my brain in a way that I've never understood it. And just in terms of, he got me this little, like, Tonkatoi wood chipper.
That I now have on my desk. So
David: That's great. Um, I want to transition a little bit to Team Cause I think that one of the things that I'm hearing in a lot of these interviews is a lot of discussion about getting the right team. And in many cases, people talking about, I got this amazing executive, but they didn't fit the team. And, um, I want to just, I, I think I, we haven't prepared this.
I think that I remember you telling me that you used to do this exercise with your, with executive teams, or you would give them, I feel like you told me you'd give them a corner office, uh, article maybe, or something, and you had each of them look at it and give their take that there was something you used to, you told me about, [00:26:00] to get everyone sharing. Kind of that authentic, you
Adam: yeah,
David: Can you tell, you know what I'm talking about? I don't know if I'm,
Adam: yeah, yeah, sure. And to me, like the, the big idea is that, you know, well, let me start at the beginning, which is that I think sometimes people in business or organizations more broadly, they're kind of like kidding themselves because I think there's this idea of like, you get, you know, 8 or 10 strangers around the table and you say, okay, you guys are a high performing team now, like, go, right?
And it's just not going to happen, right? Because there's power dynamics, right? And everybody wants more resources and FaceTime with this. So you have to, like, acknowledge those. I mean, You know, as I get older, I always feel like the phrase dysfunctional family is redundant, right? Like isn't every family dysfunctional at some level?
And if that is true, then isn't every team going to be dysfunctional as well? Certainly at the beginning. So I think a big part of it is just to acknowledge it, [00:27:00] right? You know, I interviewed one CEO. She said when she became CEO of the team, she said, look, guys, we're going to be clunky, right? This is going to, we need to work through this.
Everybody has the permission to ask why. Right? Like, of your colleagues, like, why do we do that? I thought that was a great tactic. Um, but for me, the, the, the key goal when we work with teams is like, to try and get them to see each, each other as human beings rather than colleagues, right? Because you need that sort of firm foundation of like, I see you as, as a human being.
Um, and then to build on there, like, cause every, every team says the same thing. It's like, yes, teams like, what do you guys want? It's like, We want to have each other's back, right? Which is, it means trust. And that's what everybody wants, but like, how do you get there? And I think part of it, it starts with sort of that foundation of understanding you as a human being.
Is just being vulnerable, like, whether it's, you know, you and I've been talking about the stories that influenced you as a [00:28:00] leader, right? And you sort of go around the table and just that simple question, like, what was the early thing in your life that really shaped how you show up today? And people lean into that question.
It's like, wow, I never would have expected that. And you know, you get a box of Kleenex because people start telling stories and they learn that it's like, I went through that too. I had no idea about that. Right. And so you do that, you do, you know, you and I know about the, the leadership user manual exercise, like be open about the fact that, look, I'm an introvert.
You know, I prefer emails to phone calls because I need time to think. And somebody might prefer brainstorming in person. Um, but just as much as you can share about like who you are as a human being. And how that shows up at work, your preferred work styles, your quirks. We're all human beings. We all have our quirks, our pet peeves.
Boy, if you can like use that as the foundation of the team, then you can build from there. But I just think [00:29:00] it's like, you got to acknowledge that because. Again, you put, you know, super successful people around the team, a table who are ambitious, there's going to be a lot of power dynamics, right? And there's always going to be that.
You can't make them go away. But I think this idea of like, trust to me is like that big word that I would put at the top of the whiteboard list of what you need to, for effective leadership. And we can spend hours unpacking what that word means, but I think you have to figure out how do you get there?
David: You know that when you say trust, have each other's back. I did a, we did a team building exercise. I don't know, a number of years ago and the person moderating it, they had everyone. They said, okay, everyone close your eyes. Think about the team that you've been a part of, the most successful team that you've been a part of. Okay. Now we're going to go around. Can you tell me what the team was tell me why it was the most successful? Run around the table and [00:30:00] it was the, it was so interesting and everyone went around, almost every person said a sports team that they were on of some sort in high school, in elementary school. the answers were trust. We loved each other. We this it around the table. And at the end, the question was, okay. Did anything say skill? Did anything, it actually literally no one said those words, which is especially we're talking about, you know, the undefeated basketball team, but no one said skills that everything had to do with having each other's back. And that was a huge eyeopening experience for me, because you do realize it all. That is the foundation. And, and I, at least teams I've been a part of, you don't spend enough time doing that deliberately. Right. This
Adam: yeah, yeah. And cause again, like a big component of trust is vulnerability, right? And being [00:31:00] open about the stuff that you are going through, that you went through, that shaped you as a leader. I've just, I've had so many moments where I'm facilitating those meetings and people share stories and you're just like, Oh my God, right?
Like I'm saying this, I just met them. But even their colleagues, it's like, I had no idea. That you went through that, right? And you just, it, there is true magic in that where people, you just, you can feel the energy change in the room. It's like, I see you as a human being now, not just a colleague that I'm.
David: is a very tactile question, but how do you get people to open up like that? I mean, does the CEO go first and do it first? So that like, how do you get, cause I've done some where people do that and I've gotten somewhere, we're not going to the level that you're talking about.
Adam: Yeah. Yeah. And I've, I've had a couple of those and I always make. The CEO or the senior person in the room go last, right? Because you, you want them. And, and what [00:32:00] I also do is, you know, I've got a deck of slides cause I've heard a lot of stories from CEOs over the years where like, I will set the context rather than just saying, okay, everybody be vulnerable.
Go like, it's not going to happen. Right. Like you have to sort of explain the conceit, um, and, uh, and show quotes and, and tell stories from people who've done this sometimes, you know. I'll talk about my own, whatever, but just like you have to kind of role model the behavior. Um, but I think like just that very specific question of what, you know, what was an early experience or influence that really shaped how you show up on a team today, right?
And, and, and, and, and then just saying, look. Everybody here has got their baggage, right? We all do. We're human beings. We've all faced adversity in some, and we learn a lot from that adversity. And very often that influences how we show up in workplace and on teams. So what's your story? And I generally find like 95, 97 [00:33:00] percent of the time, You do enough context setting, you do enough, and people want to have that conversation.
David: Uh, let's talk about the user manual. So that was something that. went to a CEO conference that you put on. I think there was a couple hundred amazing CEOs in the room. Um, you took us through this exercise of doing the user manual. Can you, you talked about a little bit, can you maybe extrapolate a little bit more there and talk about some more?
Adam: Yeah. And, and like, you know, I don't get these ideas like waking up at the middle of the night. I mean, I agree that this is from a CEO named Ivar Kroger that I, uh, who I interviewed years ago, but it's, um, he called it leadership user manual and the whole idea, I mean, the simplest way for me to explain it is like, Dave, like you and I know each other, right, to some degree, we had a lot of good conversations, but let's say.
You and I became colleagues, right? And, and if, if you think that, then you ask [00:34:00] yourself, well, what do we know for certain? We know for certain that it's probably going to take you and me three to six months to figure each other out, right? Like, because we, again, we're human beings. We all have our quirks.
We're pet peeves. We like, you know, communication styles, expectations, all those other things. And. It's going to take us three to six months through trial and error, maybe even some teeth grinding conversations, like misunderstandings talk, Oh, that's why you do that now I get, and so that is inevitable. And so the whole point of the user manual is to try and shorten that learning curve.
So on the first day of you and I officially becoming colleagues, I say, David, you know, really excited about working with you. What should I know about you just in terms of like, How you like to work, your styles, your preferences, your pet peeves, like what's going to earn me an extra gold star with you.
And we have that conversation. And ideally it's a two way street. You ask about me and then it's like, okay, I can work with that. Right. Like, and it doesn't come from a place of arrogance. Like you've got to, you know, peel my [00:35:00] grapes before I eat them. Like it's not that silly stuff, right. It's all in the context of we share the same goal of driving after these big goals together.
But the quicker we can figure each other out. The more we can, like, focus on the work rather than trying to figure each other out. And to me, like, that's another hallmark of best teams, right? Like people, you know, like, okay, I can, we've all got our quirks and I can honor yours, right? Your preferences and all that, all those are reasonable.
You're doing the same to me. And again, that gets at the core. Core of like trust and vulnerability. And a big component of trust is predictability. Right. So understand who I am and why I am this way. And then you go like, yeah, I can work with that. Let's go after our big goals now. So that's the point of it.
David: Yeah. Well, I, I remember I tell, you know, it's like my first LinkedIn post that went viral was when I came back from the conference. And I remember sitting there, you leading us through it, a room of 200 [00:36:00] something CEOs. And you told everyone, here's some questions, go ahead and start writing the answers. Room goes absolutely silent. Everyone heads down. And I remember very distinctly when you told people to stop and to have no one stop because people it was like therapy I think for everyone in the room and everyone. I remember distinctly. You're like, okay, now we're going to like, actually share with each other.
And everyone was still. I remember me and the person next. We were sitting there writing and then when you said, okay, now turn to the person next to you and start sharing yours. And we did that. Yeah. And we didn't stop. No one wanted to stop because it was this like, and since then I've done it at a bunch of companies, own and others I've, I've shared with them. it's always the same thing. It's like, as much as it's good for the other person, it's also in many ways, the author feels better when it's all out there, you
Adam: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's kind of like this cork being released. Cause you [00:37:00] suddenly, you finally given somebody a framework to share all these pet peeves that they have in their head. Right. And they'd go like, I can't really share, you know, this, but it's just like, it's a very human. Um, framework for having what might be a difficult conversation, but it just starts with like, look, this is my stuff, right?
Like we, you got your stuff. I got my, this is my stuff, right. And, uh,
David: I did it at a company. I led a company through small leadership group and one of the people, I said, anyone want to share? And one person said, yes, I hate when people are on their computer during meetings, because I feel like they're not listening to me. and it really frustrates me. And then someone else said, I'd like to share.
I swear. This is the next person. They said, um, Well, I really hate when people think that, uh, I'm not listening to them in meetings because I'm on my computer taking notes. It was, I, I swear that in a group of like 12 very senior leaders, but it was this thing where they, neither of them, they brought me, this was like their chance to like [00:38:00] air this, this feelings, you know, with each other. Um, but I bet after that, they both. much more productive in their meetings and weren't thinking the whole time. Why is that person on their laptop? And why is that person angry at me? Um,
Adam: that's wonderful.
David: um, I want to talk a little bit about the corner office. Like you were a journalist for many years and you were before you started. The corner office, gave you the idea or the push to start it?
Adam: Yeah. Um, so I, I was a journalist for 30 years and about 15 years as a reporter and 15 years as an editor managing teams of reporters on different desks at the New York times and also, um, Newsweek magazine. Um, but Kornhoff is the, the idea for it started. With all the years that I was a business reporter and I interviewed a lot of CEOs and I was when I was interviewing them, it was sort of the [00:39:00] traditional way that business reporters interviewed CEOs back then, right?
Like this was in the nineties. So you sit down with a CEO and it's like, you know, you sort of like study their company strategy and the competitive landscape. And, you know, you're sort of asking him the usual questions. Questions about that. And that was fine, right? Like there's an audience for that stuff, certainly back then, but I just found myself when I was meeting with these CEOs, I just became really intrigued with them as people, right?
Like they seem to have really fast brains, most of them. Um, and there's some wisdom there and sense of humor. And so this feeling just sort of kept building. And I finally. Asked myself a very simple question, which is what if I sat down with CEOs and never asked them a single question about their companies, uh, and instead ask them about like those early influences that shape them, the key leadership lessons they've learned, how they navigate the universal challenges of leadership, like hiring and building teams and culture [00:40:00] and all that, and how they hire.
Best career and life advice for new college grads. And so that was that sort of simple question that maybe not so much now, but back then was very much a departure from how CEOs were interviewed. Um, and so I, you know, I, And I kind of knew in my gut that it would work, you know, maybe some of my colleagues were skeptical, but I remember quite vividly after I interviewed the first CEO and I walked out of his, the, the, the building where his office was.
And I said to myself, this is going to work. Um, and it's just been. It's been a wonderful adventure. I mean, I just, the amount of like wisdom that I've absorbed from people like you and, and, and the stories, the memorable stories and really great, you know, whether it's acronyms or insights or tips, or how do you deal with this?
And, um, I've, I've just learned a ton and, uh, and, uh, made some lifelong friends, uh, along the way.
David: and, [00:41:00] uh, I know it's probably an unfair question to ask you. Do you have a favorite? I'm sure people have asked you this. Do you have a favorite interview?
Adam: I, I, I don't. And partly because, um, you know, I just, every, not everybody, I, there, there have been a few interviews. I w I will tell you that like, I did not run, um, just because the person didn't understand the focus, even though I was quite explicit on the front end, um, but I just find, you know, you ask people about, I'm, I'm a sucker for a great insight, David, like, you know, I've fallen out of my chair so many times, it's just like, Damn, you just like blew my mind, right?
Like I feel so much smarter about the world because what you just said, I'm a sucker for a great story and, you know, things that people have gone through and how they learn them and, and those, you know, tips, tools, and techniques. It's like, give me that, like, how do you do that? How do you operationalize that insight?
Um, I, I can do that all day [00:42:00] long. And, you know, part of my goal in life is like, it's sort of, You know, I always feel like you've got three ages, right? There's your chronological age, and then there's like, how wise are you? And so part of my goal is to be wiser than my chronological age. And then the third age is like, you know, how young at heart can you stay?
Um, and that's partly in my loft behind me. There is a pool table, a foosball table and a ping pong table. So,
David: Um, the. When you left, I, I don't know how other people felt. I was quite surprised when I, when you were leaving the New York Times, um, to join the EXCO group, but just a, it's also just a very different job and it's a different, you know, path. Um, why make that decision? Was that something you always wanted to do or something that you felt now I've collected all this information I've written books.
I've done all of this, but the way I like what I [00:43:00] I've never asked you that question before and I'm curious Like what was the what was the the turning point there? Yeah,
Adam: as I said, you know, journalist for 30 years and 18 years, the New York Times and, you know, my dream from a pretty young age was to be a journalist in my early 20s. I said, man, I would, I would kill to work in the New York Times someday. And, you know, I got there, like, when I was 30 years old. Um, and, uh, And I did a lot of different jobs and had a lot of the highs and, you know, a few of the lows and stuff, but like you do something for 30 years.
And, um, you know, I just had sort of all the experiences and launch and corner office in 2009. And I did it for almost a decade. It was a side project. So my, my day jobs with managing teams or reporters. But Corner House was a side project. I would interview CEOs like you at lunch or, you know, before the day started, whatever, and I would condense the interviews on my train ride home to Westchester.
So it [00:44:00] was always this side project and you do that. And it's like, I did 525 interviews, never missed a week. Started writing books on the side, teaching leadership at Columbia. And I just, you know, I just probably, I mean, at the end of the day, we're all cliches, right, but it's sort of, you know, cliche moment of, I wanted to turn my side passion project into my day job, right.
And, uh, it's not because I didn't love my day job, but I'd done it for 30 years and done pretty much every job I wanted and had all those experiences. So, um, Again, the beauty of interviewing 525 CEOs is you meet people. I meet people like you, David. I also met another David, a guy named David Reimer, who is the CEO of the firm I work for now.
And I had no intention of leaving the Times, right? I sort of had New York Times ink in my blood. Um, but David and I became just friends sort of organically. Be in town, we'd grab a coffee, a meal, a drink, whatever. And I started to think, when I started thinking, it's like, I actually want to [00:45:00] turn this side passion project into my day job.
And at Xco, our core business is leadership development, executive mentoring. Um, and I can basically take my approach. You know, I wear a lot of hats at the firm, but a big one is around content. I've got four interview series on LinkedIn with about 250, 000 subscribers and, you know, interviewing CEOs and board directors and heads of HR.
Again, sticking to my swim lane of interviewing leaders about leadership, not about their companies. So from a certain angle, it looks like journalism and consulting, that seems very different. Um, from another angle, I feel like I'm using a lot of the same muscles and really just kind of exploring, um, you know, this sort of little niche about like, You know, cause leadership is like a big field, but I feel like I've locked in for me on what meaningful leadership advice looks like and exploring that and ultimately sharing it.
Because the reason I do this is [00:46:00] like, if I can help people be better leaders, like, that's a really good day. And I also think there's too many bad bosses in the world, and if I can convert some of those bad bosses to not so bad bosses, like, that's also a good day.
David: I I uh I love, you know, I love the LinkedIn series that you have. Is it, it feels like you do more writing than at the, at the New York times, at least from, from afar, it feels like it's more than,
Adam: Yeah, it is. I feel like I'm, you know, almost back to my reporting days where I was like writing all the time because I've written a couple more books and magazine articles and the interview series. And, uh, but, but it's fun. It's just, you know, it's, it's fun because I, I keep learning stuff. And sometimes people say like, don't you get bored?
And it's like, I do not get bored because People who have led organizations, they've got great insights and great stories and stuff. And again, I'm a sucker for that stuff all day long.
David: like when [00:47:00] you added like the CHRO, the HR, like that one was, cause I think it, it's, It's like similar but different, you know, in terms of in terms of that function I think and it's but it's of course tied to people and leadership and all that So I I thought that was a really interesting expansion the board directors many times they are Similar, you know, kinds of people, but the HR one is, was, was for me, an interesting expansion, you know, of the audience,
Adam: Yeah. And, and, and very quick note on that. I mean, we started that series before the pandemic, but you know, in, in, in, I think the 2008 financial crisis was kind of like the CFO's crisis, right? Like you've got to get us out of this, but I think the last four years in the pandemic, that has been HR's crisis, like.
You know, historically you talk to HR leaders and like 30 years ago, it was all about like, we want a seat at the table. And it's like, it's your, it is your table now, right? You don't just have a seat at the table, [00:48:00] like every new problem that rolls up to the company, everybody just looks down the table at the CHRO and say, you've got this, right?
Like this is yours.
David: let's talk about actually the last four years, I think, last four years, no matter how you cut it, have been tough, you've been interviewing leaders for. 30 years. Do you think this is the toughest four year window ever? Do you think the financial crisis was worse? You think the dot com, like where do you, what, where do you rank this?
I guess in your, in your experience, where do you rank these last four years?
Adam: Yeah, I, I think leadership has gotten a lot tougher. I mean, pick a number three X, five X, 10 X. Right. But like, there's an X there. Um, and, and I think partly it's just sort of the end of endless disruption. Right. And it just seems like the pace of disruption, just when you think you got things on track, like, you know, there's a 18 wheeler that comes out of your side view and like, you know, supply chain or, you know, whatever, but it's just sort of [00:49:00] that constant, like, Oh no, like this, These once in a lifetime events seem to be happening every two years now, right?
So, you take that, but also just the, um, it is remarkable for people like me who grew up like in this Gordon Gekko, like business is bad and, you know, it's all just like, you know, serving investors and all that. You think about the evolution, I mean, all the trust Survey show now that like businesses at the top of the trust index, right?
Like you never would have expected that
David: hmm.
Adam: years ago. And, and in many ways, like people are now looking to companies to solve all society problems, right? All the problems seem to be rolling past the doors of government agencies to business. Okay. You guys solve this. Um, and partly because they can write and, and our, our political world is so divided.
Right. So people are looking to business to address all these broader [00:50:00] societal. Um, and then on top of that, like it was a pandemic you add in, it's like, okay, we have to take care of our employees. So we have to take care of what the safety got that get the order equipment. But it's like, Oh, we also have to take care of your mental health now too.
And because everybody is, you know, the pandemic was kind of looking in the mirror and saying, what's the meaning of life. Right. Companies also then had to provide more sense of purpose, right. And mission and all that. So that there was that emotion. It's like, wow, this keeps getting harder. And so to me, it's just like all these additional layers and many of them do manifest as these paradoxes, right.
These balancing acts. So, you know, you're a manager, you're a leader. You've got, uh, employees going through a lot, you know, because certainly during the pandemic, right. Everybody, family members, all that other stuff. Like, you're supposed to be compassionate, but at what point? Like, where does that end and where does that end?
When does it just turn [00:51:00] into therapy and like, they got to do their job, right? So like balancing compassion, but also holding people accountable for performance. I feel like people are always trying to figure that out, especially with You know, quiet quitting. We went through that. Um, and as companies are being pulled off the fence to take stands on broader societal issues, like that's a whole layer of complexity, right?
And sometimes even just staying on the fence is taking a stand. Right. And, and so then you sort of morph into, okay, companies are supposed to be inclusive, right, but you're all supposed to stand for something. So how do you square those? Right. Cause if everybody's supposed to have a sense of belonging at the company, and yet you're supposed to stand for something like, what if the people on your team disagree, like there's just all these new nuance problems for which there is no obvious answer.
And so that's why I think leadership has gotten so much harder. And I'd love to hear your thoughts too.
David: you know, every, [00:52:00] every interview I do, I ask the person, what is the biggest challenge you faced at your current company? What did you do to overcome it? I ask everyone the same question. And every single person so far, it has been a story during the last four years, even people with 12 year old companies, 15 years, been part of like, It's something related to the last four years, and almost all of them bring up a actual business problem.
Supply chain, um, physical office business that gets shut down, like all things that are related to the business. Everything you just said, In addition, you know, it's like, in addition to that, last four years has probably been the most complicated as it relates to the people. One of the I spoke with, he said entire time I was so worried about the things I had to worry for my team and their safety and their jobs and their this, but at the same time, the [00:53:00] company was literally collapsing. And so, and the team didn't give me any credit for the fact that I'm holding up the company over here while taking care of them over here, I've heard that same thing now, and that probably is a unique moment of how many crazy things have happened to businesses while at the same thing at time that they're having to deal with the people that I think it is. I haven't been operating for 40 years. So it's hard for me to go back far enough to say, is it the worst? But at least in my career, I don't know how there could, how could you have more complexity at one time? I, I don't know.
Adam: Yeah. And then we go. Back to like, who would want these jobs, right? Because they have gotten so much harder. And every day is this sort of, you know, I, I feel like part of leadership is, is like every day there's a, there's a new wheelbarrow of Rubik's cubes. You've never seen before that are like dumped at your desk.
Right. And it's like, [00:54:00] okay, you try and sell it. And then tomorrow there's going to be a new wheelbarrow of Rubik's cubes. You've never seen before. And you, that's why it's like, well, why do people do it? And part of it's like, you've got to have a certain amount of stamina and energy and you've got to see all those things.
Rubik's Cubes is kind of interesting and exciting and challenging and opportunities because if it was like, please don't give me another like Rubik's Cube, like you're in the wrong job, right?
David: Um, let me ask you, so you've written four books, um, great, great books. Do you think you'll ever write a fifth, sixth, seventh? Like I, I, I haven't written, I mean, I've written one as it related to for SAS stuff, but like, It was so hard to write those and those are not even close to what you've done. Do you think you'll, you'll, you'll go through that pain again?
Yeah,
Adam: of why do people do this, right? Um, Yeah, I probably will. I mean, I wrote two books in four years and after that, um, by the time I finished the second [00:55:00] one in that period, I found like speaking of like, Oh, Bob, and you know how your brain works. I found myself immediately thinking it's like, What's the next?
And I, I stopped myself. I said, take a break, take a year and just like, don't write a book because to me, writing a book is kind of all consuming. I mean, the metaphor for me when I start writing a book is like, I'm standing at the base of a very big mountain and I'm looking up. And I don't know how tall the mountain is and there's a mountain range behind the mountain.
I don't know how long that is. I don't know the path. And like I, and sort of, and so to me, like, you've got to have a certain amount of like commitment and passion for the topic. and just know that it's like you suit up, like your knuckles are going to get bloody, there's going to be times where you're asking yourself, man, like, why am I doing this?
Um, but then, you know, like a year goes by and you're suddenly on the other side of the mountain range on level ground again. So
David: Well, it's, it's, I think, [00:56:00] um, I don't know, but I, was one time I wrote this book about managing SaaS applications and everything, and I went to a customer's office and I'll never forget that they had it on their desk. With post it notes of, you know, and I probably, there was probably like 10 people who read that book, but that feeling to me, I think about you and say like, wow, you must think some, like all these leaders reading all this material, taking all that knowledge, that's like a pretty amazing, just the impact you can have is multiplied so many different. Times, you know, when you do that, um, do you think about that? Like,
Adam: I do. And when you get those notes back from people, I mean, it is so rewarding, right? Like some shared some insight with, um, and again, like. You know, I, I would say like, I am not a leadership guru and, and, or anything like that. It's just like, [00:57:00] I've, because I have taken this sort of journalistic, reportorial approach to understanding leadership.
Like I feel like in my brain, I've got the collective wisdom of more than a thousand leaders and I get excited about sharing that. So it's, you know, and I try and do my pattern matching and I'll like, isn't this interesting? And you see the connections and. That's kind of what the books are about. Um, but yeah, it is, it's always rewarding when you hear that, like, you know, you see, like somebody shows you their book and they wore out a highlighter on passages or the post it notes.
And, uh, it, it's super gratifying.
David: Um, for, for the Xcode group, can you just talk maybe a little bit about, you talked about it before, but I would love to just get, who do you work with? You know, what people listening to this, should they reach out to you? Like,
Adam: Yeah. So, so our core business is one on one mentoring or coaching at the C suite level. So C suite, C minus one, minus two, [00:58:00] there's a ton of coaches out there. Um, the thing that sets us apart is that all our. All our coaches are former CEOs or global business leaders. So they've been in the chair like you felt the weight on their back.
Um, and so that's kind of our differentiator. That's our core business. We work with like fortune 20 companies. Private, you know, private equity, VC, family businesses, um,
David: full
Adam: full, full spectrum. And we actually typically don't match our coaches based on industry background, um, because we find there's a lot of magic in, you know, somebody from a CPG company, you know, pairing up with a mentor who worked in oil and gas, but the point is like leadership.
Right. It's about knowing the right questions to ask and clarity. Um, but we also do a lot of work with teams, helping them operate like true teams. Um, and we're getting pulled more and more into, um, board work around succession and executive [00:59:00] assessment. Cause there's just this, like, I, I, Feel like so much is changing in the world of, I mean, stating the obvious, right?
Organizations, companies, leadership. And I think one of the most consistent themes we are hearing is that people are telling us that the playbooks that they've been running for the last 20 or 30 years just don't work in this environment. Like maybe they worked when the world was more stable. Right. And a little more predictable, but just with, you know, there's so much churn and uncertainty.
There's this sense of like, we need to have a new conversation, a new way of thinking about this. Um, and so that's, and, and we love to have those conversations. So that's kind of our, our firm.
David: I really like the succession planning stuff. I, I, I did not do that until late, late, late. And, and I feel Once I started doing that really deliberately, it completely changed my view on the team, it changed my view on who I needed to hire, [01:00:00] it changed how to invest in the people on the team, and it also changed actually the conversations with the top people on the team to tell them there is a for you to move into, you know, versus, oh, I have to leave to get that another job to get that. And I really, I, I never, people would say succession planning to me, my head of HR, my, and I never really gave it the credit. And love that that's an area. It is so, I've been helping a lot of the companies I'm advising, just giving them how I did it, not in some in depth way, just to think about it and to put. It like, I think it also gives you a CEO. And as a board, obviously a lot of peace of mind that someone's
Adam: Right.
David: up one day and say, I'm gone. And then the whole company falls, you know, you're like starting to chase them. Please stay, please begging, you know, versus, okay, that makes sense. You're ready to go.
We already have the person ready to step into those shoes. I love, I love that. I love [01:01:00] that.
Adam: Yeah. And, and, and you and I know that a lot of people don't do proper succession planning. Right. Because it seems like almost every day there's some headline about some big company where, you know, like the CEO is clearly not a good fit for the company and they get kicked out or, or whatever. But just like, there's, you know, there's how you should do it.
But the reality is a lot of people, you know, they, They don't spend the proper time and then they make decisions because somebody looks like a CEO. It's like, give it to Bob, you know, he's six foot two, you know, he looks good. He's got like that chiseled jaw. Like that's not how you do succession planning.
David: Um, question for you, knowing everything, you know, today, your entire career, everything you've done in your career, if you could go back to the very beginning of your career, before you started your first job and give yourself one piece of advice, what would it be?[01:02:00]
Adam: I think I would probably tell myself to enjoy the journey more. Because I've, I've always been very goal oriented. And very much like, you know, achievements, like I need to do this and accomplish this. And, you know, and I, I don't mean in terms of title, because I've actually turned down two promotions in my career.
So I've never been focused on like, I got to get to that next rung, but more like accomplishing different things. Um, and so, Sometimes I, I feel like the way my brain works, I'm sometimes scanning the horizon too much, um, instead of like being present and enjoying this. Cause like, you know, and partly like I was an editor for 15 years at the New York Times and Newsweek.
It's like, Your job is to scan the horizon, right? Like, like, what are we missing? The story's breaking. Like, what are the five angles that could play out? Like what, what else is going on and trying to spot patterns [01:03:00] and see what's missing? I mean, it's almost like being an idea entrepreneur. Like nobody's articulated this insight.
And so the way my brain works is partly it's like, It's just that kind of like constantly scanning the horizon. So I think my advice to myself, and I'm working on it now, partly why, like I'm living in New Orleans where our two daughters moved. Uh, but New Orleans is a great place to sort of like, the vibe here is just like do what you're doing when you're doing it and enjoy it and it's a good.
I like living here because it's a good counterweight for me. Cause more naturally I'm like scanning that horizon, living in the future a bit.
David: I love that advice. I could probably use that. Um, Adam, thank you for doing this with me. I, I, um, really, I, you've been really helpful for me on my journey in so many different ways, your content, your friendship, your, your mentorship. So thank you very much. And, uh, I know people are gonna, are gonna love this and there's, there's just, [01:04:00] people probably listen to this five times and catch, you know, 10 new things each time.
So, um, thank you. Thank you very
Adam: No, I appreciate it. I'll always enjoy conversations, David, and then love what you're doing with this podcast. Um, you just, uh, it's cool to watch you create something.
David: you. Thank you. Well, hopefully everyone, you're, you're, you enjoyed the episode. If you did like subscribe, share it with your networks and, uh, and we'll see you for the, for the next episode of not another CEO podcast.
Share this post