How do you scale a company from zero to $100 million in 18 months without losing quality, clarity, or control?
In this episode, Matt Price shares the remarkable story of building Crescendo, one of the fastest-growing companies ever featured on the show, by reimagining customer experience through advanced AI and deeply trained specialists. Matt’s journey has come full circle: from a technical support rep early in his career, to scaling Zendesk, to now creating an entirely new model for enterprise-grade customer care.
Matt opens up about assembling an elite leadership team in record time, creating a vertically integrated product-and-operations engine, and designing a culture anchored around accountability, curiosity, and constant communication. He also explains why outcome-based pricing changes everything, how General Catalyst’s creation model gave Crescendo an unfair advantage, and why traditional BPOs simply aren’t positioned for the AI era. This is a masterclass in speed, focus, and operational excellence.
Takeaways:
Building a Stellar Team: Matt emphasized the importance of assembling a high-quality team quickly. He discussed how bringing in top talent, especially those with experience in related fields, has been crucial for Crescendo’s rapid growth.
Curiosity and Vision as Key Attributes: When recruiting for a fast-growth environment, Matt values curiosity and passion for the company’s vision. These attributes, combined with relevant experience, are critical for innovation and progress.
Prioritizing Outcomes Over Traditional Models: Crescendo has embraced outcome-based pricing, aligning the company’s success with customer satisfaction. This model contrasts with traditional seat-based pricing and encourages the entire organization to focus on end-to-end service quality.
Integrating AI Thoughtfully: Matt spoke about the evolution of AI in customer care and its potential to transform the industry. By integrating AI with human expertise, Crescendo offers enhanced support experiences.
Strategic Acquisition for Growth: The strategic acquisition of traditional BPOs has allowed Crescendo to expand its distribution and offer scalable AI solutions. Matt’s approach underscores the power of mergers and acquisitions in achieving rapid growth.
Creating a Culture of Accountability: Matt stressed the significance of having someone accountable for leading every project or initiative. In a fast-paced environment, clarity in roles and responsibilities is vital for efficiency and progress.
Fostering Open Communication: Maintaining open communication channels, even in remote settings, is a priority for Crescendo’s leadership. Matt ensures his team stays connected through regular meetings and an open-door policy.
Quote of the Show:
“Customer care was constrained by the economics. In order to deliver customer care up to now, you have to put humans in, a lot of people in… and AI now changes that, AI puts us into a world of abundance. And we need to shift our mindsets now as CX leaders… we’re moving from being deflectors to creators and innovators.” - Matt Price
Links:
Website: https://www.crescendo.ai/
Ways to Tune In:
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Apple Podcasts:
Transistor: https://podcast.notanotherceo.com/
#NotAnotherCEO #BusinessSuccess #Crescendo
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:32 Building a High-Impact Team
03:40 The Role of AI in Customer Service
06:03 Rapid Growth and Company Evolution
07:58 Leadership and Team Dynamics
11:03 AI Integration and Product Development
21:53 Founding Crescendo and Market Opportunities
28:10 Challenges and Focus as a CEO
31:08 The CEO’s Influence on Team Dynamics
35:00 Outcome-Based Pricing in SaaS
36:22 Challenges and Benefits of Outcome-Based Models
41:25 Strategic Growth Through Acquisitions
47:04 The Future Vision for Crescendo
48:34 Personal Journey and Early Career
58:33 Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
59:29 Outro
Transcript:
Matt: [00:00:00] I was able to get on the right bus and get with the right people, and the rest is history.
David: Today’s guest is Matt Price, the CEO and co-founder of Crescendo. Matt is one of the most experienced and respected operators in the world of customer service. He spent more than a decade at Zendesk, where he helps scale the company globally and eventually led Zendesk Labs, the group responsible for driving innovation and incubating new products that pushed the company into its next chapter.
Crescendo, which is his new company, is pioneering a model for customer experience that blends advanced AI with trained [00:01:00] specialists to deliver fast, high quality support at scale. In only 18 months, crescendo has raised $50 million from firms like General Catalyst and Celesta, and they’re on track to cross a hundred million dollars of revenue before the end of this year.
It’s quickly becoming one of the hottest companies in the category. Please welcome Matt Price.
Matt: Thank you so much. It’s great to be here.
David: I am excited for this first question. The, the, the question I ask every guest, what is the one thing you’ve done big or small at Crescendo that’s had the biggest impact? And you do, again, if you’re CEO, of another company in the future.
Matt: I’ve been able to assemble oh, an amazing team very quickly and, uh, far and away the biggest impact of anything else that we could have done.
David: When you think about, when you talk about team, is that leadership team across the board? Like, you know, because where is that?
Matt: Yeah, it started, it started with leadership team. Um, we were. Really fortunate to be connected with, [00:02:00] an amazing, uh, engineering and product team early on who already had momentum. Um, and they’re the team that built Genesys Cloud product in the past and had created some amazing things with ai. so, uh, that’s an example of just really bringing in very, very high quality founders to hit the ground running. And
David: Hmm,
Matt: from that point on, we’ve been able to pull in people from, um, with Salesforce experience, rock experience, obviously Zendesk experience
David: Hmm.
Matt: So really great, uh, blend of talent,
David: What is the number one attribute you look for in people that you bring on, you know, early stage, crazy growth? Like what is that number one attribute that you look for?
Matt: uh, curiosity and passion for the vision. That
David: Hmm.
Matt: Take us so far. You know, the hygiene factor is they have to have done their job before they have to know what they’re doing. But there’s a lot of people out there who have had these roles. But finding that unique combination of somebody who’s incredibly passionate and really curious [00:03:00] about the mission is, uh, is key to us.
David: Do you think that those people have to come from the space? Like, like you, obviously, you know the space better than anyone do. Do these people have to come from the space or can they they be from outside of it, but just still have a passion for, for that?
Matt: You know, it’s not essential, but it helps because the people who have been in our space for a while have been trying to move the needle, uh, for the last 20, 30 years on improving customer care. And to be honest, we haven’t made that much progress. know, people are still waiting in queues, they’re still getting bad experiences. But AI is changing all of that and, uh, radically. And so, um, people who come from the space and who have experienced the past
David: Hmm.
Matt: Well suited to talk about how the future works.
David: Hmm.
Matt: That’s one thing that’s unique about our team and, and our group is pretty much everybody has, [00:04:00] who’s creating the solution has worked or led within customer care. And so our offering comes from that experience and wasn’t spun up in an AI lab somewhere from people who’ve never, uh, sat in a role.
David: Hmm. And when you talk about this, I mean, I, I am actually very passionate about customer experience, customer support. I, I had a terrible experience in my first company of how we treated our customers, and I swore to myself we’re gonna do it a complete different way. And we were huge Zendesk customers for a long time.
And really, like, I I, I, I’m very passionate about it. Why do you think that it hasn’t changed? Was it just technology? I mean, was the problem that AI didn’t exist? You know, is that, was that the problem at the end of the day?
Matt: I mean, in many respects, yeah. But, but from a bigger perspective, it was, customer care was constrained by the economics
and in order to deliver customer care up
until Now, you had to put humans in, a lot of people in. And, you know, people tried to find different ways [00:05:00] of making processes a bit quicker, doing a bit of self-service, maybe, using people who were, you know, in, lower cost centers. But really these were fractional incremental changes, you know, for most businesses. The competitiveness of their product didn’t allow them to spend
large amounts On customer care. in fact, only a few companies could, right? So American Express maybe, or, Apple Premium price products where they baked in customer care
into Their offering. But for the rest of the world, we were constrained by that fact. And AI now, changes that, AI puts us into a world of abundance. And we need to shift our mindsets now as CX leaders, not from how do I deflect customers? How do I make sure things are just not too bad to a world where we have a palette of so many options in order to serve customers?
So we’re moving from being [00:06:00] deflectors to creators and innovators.
David: I love that. Um, thi this company, you are one of the faster growing companies and top two three that I’ve had on this show. Um, it’s crazy. I mean, the growth is, is amazing. I mean, to go from zero to a hundred million in 18 months, 24 months, whatever it ends up being is still is, is a crazy fast amount of time.
How is the company changing? Like in, is it a new company every week, a new company every month? Like, you know, I’ve experienced this, but for me it’s over a period of 10 years. It’s a new company every two or three years. This feels to me like it could be every month or quarter. Like how, how does that, how are you dealing with that?
Matt: Yeah, I mean, there are parts of the company that, uh, where change is not hugely significant. You know, where whereby we’re actually delivering service and we’re operating, we’re tuning and evolving there. there are parts, the organization that are [00:07:00] moving incredibly fast. The AI world, there are constant changes in the tools available to you, um, and the innovation you can create.
So we have to make sure with it from a product perspective, we’re constantly taking advantage of those and deploying them very quickly. So, for example, we just released a new capability of multimodal where you can do chat and voice and share images all in one window all at one time, which opens up a whole new possibility.
But, and then of course there’s the scaling of how many people we’ve got. We’ve just hired 50 people and go to market. Well, that changes things radically about how you approach, you can’t be doing founder led sales anymore when you’ve got that scale from, I mean, the trick is really just, uh, trying to think ahead, but also sensing and responding if you see an indicator drill into it quickly and see what you need to do to tune and fix.
Um, but
David: Hmm.
Matt: Like I said, I’ve got an amazing leadership team who has experience, you know, in, in doing these things.
David: How fast is a, I [00:08:00] I’m most curious about like the leadership team. Um, ‘cause to your point, you have to have a good leadership team to evolve this fast, to make that many hires. To make these like you, you have to have, how do you. Operate as a team? Like, is that, is it a daily standup, a weekly meeting? Is it, you know, one-on-ones?
Like where do you, if you had to look at the way your leadership team works, where, what is the, the core that everything kind of revolves around?
Matt: Yeah, so I mean, there’s a, there’s some basic principles on, uh, on how we operate. I mean, the first one is if something needs to be done, we have somebody who’s accountable for leading that and, and delivering it. So it’s either in their function or if it’s something cross-functionally, then we, we have no ambiguity about who’s leaving leading it. The second thing is pretty much any decision that needs to be made or any communication needs to be made. It needs to involve more than one person. we don’t do a lot of one-on-ones at [00:09:00] all. And we’ll do one-on-ones when people come into the business to help them ramp. But after that, typically it’s a group or it’s a group thing.
So if we’re talking go to market, it makes sense. I have my head of head of marketing in place there in my head of revenue there. I in the same conversations. ‘cause pretty much anything we talk about
David: Wow.
Matt: Both businesses. And then what we do is, um, have, a couple of meetings weekly where everybody gets together.
There’ll be some agendas and then we have walk-ons. And that’s where people can bring in issues that need to be resolved. And again, the outcome of that needs to be an owner or prioritization of what we do.
David: Hmm.
Matt: And then the final thing is, you know, our company works quite remotely, but. Have an have an open door policy.
Somebody can, people can call my cell. I, I, I call peop, I randomly call the team. I’m a member of the team every morning on my commute. They love it, you know, it’s, uh, but it’s, uh, but keeping those communicate informal [00:10:00] channels open as well. So a number of, a number of ways we
David: But,
but what I hear from you is. Being in constant communication with each other. And one of the pieces of feedback I got as a leader, uh, from my head of people at one point, she said, Dave, you’re this hub and we have this hub and spoke model where you’re the hub and everyone has meetings with you, and then you go and tell other people what happened in the meetings.
You said, this is crazy. Like everything takes so long. And what I’m hearing from you is actually you don’t really have that hub and spoke every time you have a meeting about a subject, anyone who needs to be involved in that is in that meeting, and you’re having that conversation together and someone comes out as the owner of whatever gets decided,
Matt: That’s right. And the best scenario is when that happens and I’m not in the room and, and it’s just happening within the organization, you
David: right?
Matt: Connecting and making it and making it work and, you know, that’s, that’s scalability starting to, you know, filter into the [00:11:00] organization.
David: How many people total are in the org now?
Matt: Well, I think I mentioned that we have, um, a unique offering where we have AI first, where we deliver AI agents in order to support customers. can back that up with, uh, uh, humans in the loop, or people call it forward deployed, um, uh, um, resources. can be as simple as helping a customer with knowledge management and AI deployment.
And we wrap everything in. And so there’s no incremental cost all the way through to handling level one or level two, or even level three support. So for some
David: Hmm.
Matt: We manage the whole support. They have one person, and then these are, you know, large $50 million plus companies, one person, and we are their support partner. Um, now, um, and so this is again reflecting in your area. So to answer your question, we’re, um, a few thousand people now, um, increasing, uh, increasing. Um, gradually. Um, [00:12:00] and a lot of those people are, are helping our customers deliver
David: Got it. Got it.
Matt: Uh, uh, and then a number of people are obviously within our core engineering and our go to market teams as well.
David: The, the thing that you said that that actually now is kind of sticking with me. This, this thing of the problem with support was the economics, which makes a lot of sense. And what I think is there’s like this, this kind of thing right now around AI of a question of is the solution just ai? But when you think about delivering an amazing experience, if you go all the way to that extreme,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: You do lose a lot.
Like you, you can go the other extreme. You can, you could basically create a separate problem, which this human in the loop. When we first started talking, you explained it to me, I was like, wow, this is a kind of interesting thing because you, you know that at least there’s a person there. To make sure that that experience is [00:13:00] positive, but they can do so much more because of the technology and what the technology can do.
Matt: You are exactly right. And so what we see with the customers as we move them onto um, an AI platform or AI first platform is firstly we’re incredibly careful on quality. In, in, in fact, we have, um, a full quality guarantee. So we only pay, we only charge per outcomes. And, and an outcome is a, a resolved, uh, uh, customer inquiry. and in that case, you know, you know, we’re just in incredibly focused on making sure that there’s high quality. What that means is we don’t try and get the AI to do too much at first. Because the worst experience is you come onto an ai, it’s maybe reasonably good, but the AI is being trained to try and keep you, keep you there. And so and so either starts making mistakes and or you get in this loop and you have to,
David: I was just gonna say, [00:14:00] I just had this yesterday and I got into an endless loop and I, I was like, please get me out of this. And I’m a pretty technical person. I was trying all kinds of things to get outta the loop and I’m like, this is gonna crush me.
Matt: Yep. And so what happens there is that eventually maybe you get flipped to a, to, to, to, to a human. You, you’re able to actually move to, and you know, a lot of people, you know, you can get pretty high AI automation, you know, it’s, a lot of people talk plus, you know, 60, 70% a lot of the time. What a lot of people don’t think about is they think, oh, that’s good. But then until you think about the other third of people. And what their experience is like. And they have to go through this ai, discussion and get to the point and, you know, then they get transferred to a human. Well, what most customers have not done is changed what the handoff is to the human. So they’ve bolted on ai and then you go through this whole process with, with
David: Hmm. Hmm,
Matt: then you get transferred to somebody who is a rookie agent, [00:15:00] who really just in many cases doesn’t have the, uh, as much knowledge as the ai. And then you have to start again and work through. And that’s where we see a lot of negative experiences with Bolton Bots, uh, um, actually driving lower customer sound,
David: Hmm.
Matt: Organizations.
And obviously what we do is redesigned the whole experience from the bottom up. And so we’ll
David: Hmm.
Matt: With our customers to make sure that those handoffs to humans and the quality of the human is very good. Make sure staffing can be done in a, in, in a way that’s live. In many more hours. So what we do is we take the savings from the ai, but make sure making sure that we’re
David: Hmm,
Matt: the teams
David: hmm,
Matt: to improve customer care all around.
David: you talked about AI is evolving so quickly that from a product perspective, you have to keep kind of using the technology in the best way. And I, I talked to a friend who’s at one of the coding assisting companies and he said like, there are weeks where the things that are [00:16:00] coming out in the world are so, so fast.
They’ll like launch something and then two days later have to relaunch the thing because now there’s a new technology. I was like, how’s that even? And they have a lot of customers and how do you do, I mean, that is the fastest iteration of, you know, that, that I’ve ever seen. Right. You were at Zendesk, like I was a very happy Zendesk customer, but it took a long time for, you know, these things to come out and the, the feature releases, like how did.
Do that. And I really specifically like how do you do that in a way where it doesn’t break all the workflows and everything that’s going on and you know, across all your customers, all your agents, like how do you do that?
Matt: It is a great question and it was the time that I spent at Zendesk and in product companies and, and like I say, Zendesk ‘cause you know, top class, you know, o organization that made me want to do something slightly different when, when I created my own company You know, within the technology company it is hard [00:17:00] because you have these pro processes.
Some, some an engineer will have an idea. It then goes through product, uh, review cycles. Then, then maybe it gets on the product roadmap and time is assigned to it, and then, and then they develop it, and then it gets packaged and reviewed, and then it gets localized and then, and then it gets, goes into early testing with customers, and then finally you release it to the customers and you kind of think that everybody is just gonna adopt it,
David: Yeah.
Matt: you know, and that, and then, you know,
David: That’s
funny.
Matt: Five or six or 10% penetration at this wonderful new feature that you spent all this time doing.
So I want to do it slightly differently. And one of the amazing things about the model we have is that we have product engineering, but the people who are using the software sit within the same company.
as
well So the feedback loop is incredibly tight. So not only are we able to get feedback immediately as to how
well What we’re developing, is working, but when it gets deployed, we can enable [00:18:00] it incredibly quickly and, then make sure it’s actually being deployed well based upon our forward, deployed resources.
So this, for us at least, is creating an incredibly tight feedback loop where we can have something in the labs, you know, in one week or a couple of days, and then deploy on a customer account in hours or, if a customer has identified a special need. Um, I’ll give you an example. In the early, we first released, released our voice product, we realized that, um, it wanted to refer people to URLs sometimes, or, or, or, or refer to other information. so, but speaking, a URL is dumb. you know somebody, they’re calling you for a reason. So, you know, within hours we were able to turn on a feature where that, that would be SMS to the client. And that’s a very tight iteration. It’s not a lot, a huge amount of [00:19:00] engineering, it’s something that can be turned on and then tested within that client observed very quickly and then propagated through the rest of the, uh, of the customer base.
So those are the fun things, you know, seeing this quick in our, you know, iteration and learning.
David: The, the having the employees of your company be the users of the product. I, that is not to be understood. That makes a lot of sense. ‘cause then you can iterate much faster. ‘cause the communication loop out to the world and to your customers and explaining and do you want to be on this release cycle or this, you can actually control that entire, it’s vertically integrated all the way through.
Matt: and that’s exactly the right way to think about is the vertical integration. That doesn’t mean that. We have to do everything, you know, we’ll partner with our, our customers and, you know, if they want to us to just take our ai,
David: Right.
Matt: Do that. But more often than not, in order to really make it work, [00:20:00] may be lacking a couple of hires or some skills and, and we’ll backfill those immediately such
David: Hmm.
Matt: Can get to market very quickly.
And, you know, we typically have customers live within 30 days, which is, you know, really good within the industry.
David: Um, on ICP, uh, who is the ICP for this? Like, and how narrow is that? Because I, I don’t know. When I, when I heard this for the first time, I hadn’t heard of Crescendo, and then I heard it, started looking it up, then started talking to people who use it. My, my sense is that pretty much anyone could be a customer.
I mean, you could have huge customers, you could have tiny customer, like anyone, could be a customer. Like how tight are you on that?
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: ICP.
Matt: We have, we have customers who range from, you know, very large enterprises, international, uh, you know, companies all the way down to companies that may be, you know, uh, have, uh, $10 million in revenue. Um, exciting thing about our model is, you know, the way we can forward deploy resources, and we have a whole pool of [00:21:00] people who can help on that, is it’s incredibly scalable. you know, so it scales down, uh, uh, as well as scales up the uh, but we think, obviously the way you serve customers, new way you address customers within certain markets needs to be different. So we have a very. growing mid market, um, or, or organization, which is very much based upon speed, getting customers up and running, managing their customer service operations.
And then we have, uh, an enterprise operation where we engage with organizations who are bigger, may have maybe have some unique requirements, um, and, and we
David: Mm-hmm.
Matt: separately. So, you know, the, I would say our, our core ICP is the mid market, but moving very quickly up market now as more, more organizations.
David: Um, this is your first job as CEO. You’ve been in a bunch of executive roles, but then your first [00:22:00] job as, as founder, CEO, um, is this something that you always knew you wanted to do and you were just waiting for that right opportunity? Or was it like the right opportunity that spoke to you that said, I need to be c you know, founder, CEO.
Does that make like what, ‘cause I, I, I asked this question ‘cause I talked to a lot of people who are executives, who’ve been executives at many companies, been very successful, and they’ll tell me, I’m not ready to be CEO. And I’m like, I don’t even know if there’s something to prepare you to be ready. You know, like, I don’t know how much more work, you know, you know how much more experience you need.
So I’m just curious, like, was this something you were kind of building towards in your career explicitly, or is this something that just came about? You said, I have to do this.
Matt: I was much more focused in my career as I’ve been through a number of waves, young and age myself here. But the PC wave, you know, the client server wave, the, the, uh, internet wave and.com and then SaaS. So I’ve been fortunate to be. go through each of those waves and, and [00:23:00] within each one, an iconic company, you know, or, or such as Zendesk, for example, on, on SaaS wave.
So I’m much more concerned about being part of the new technology wave and being within an amazing company, um, that, that, that, that’s been part of that and I’ve had the opportunity to do it. So it really doesn’t matter to me the role I’ve got as long as it’s interesting and it’s, uh, and I can make a difference now. so happens within, within the AI wave, I guess I had enough experience and I’ve done enough things whereby, you know, I was qualified to be a CEO at, at this particular point in time and, and that’s how I landed to do this and not necessarily seeking it, but, uh, um, that it’s much more about, you know, being involved in something new and uh, and, and being on the right bus, being in the right company.
David: And you worked, if I understand correctly, you, you worked with General Catalyst kind of [00:24:00] to get this thing really together off, off the ground. Is that correct?
Matt: That’s right. General Catalyst, um, have an incubation program called Program. And they’ll try and do is I mean, obviously incredibly smart people
David: Yeah.
Matt: Look at market trends and, and look for market opportunities. And so they identified a market opportunity in our space. The BPO industry, the market for labor in customer care is half a trillion a year. And that’s conservative estimates, massive market. Um, obviously AI is gonna hugely disrupt that. So the thesis is, um, can we build a company or can we find a company to invest in that’s going to that, that can do this the right way? Um. They were unable to find a company that, that was right. There’s plenty of bolt-on bots out there, you know, but no company that was addressing the whole approach. So they had [00:25:00] the idea to create one and pulled together a number of founders, um, with expertise and disciplines in order to how to do that.
Um, Andy Lee from Aica, of, of the, such a humble guy, but built from scratch at two, $2 billion plus contact center business, uh, around, all around the world. Um, and then Chan Seran, who was, you know, at uh, uh, both met her and at CPO at five nine. Um, so, and then I was fortunate enough to be connected because they needed an, needed an operator, so I was then bought into. So yeah, pretty unique founding story and obviously with General Catalyst being able to, uh, provide us with financial backing to move very quickly.
David: Hmm. Yeah, that’s, um, it feels to me like this is becoming a more, I’m hearing more of this, um, from some of these really big successful firms that they, they’re going all the way to inception kind of [00:26:00] phase, you know, the stage. And they have the opinions, they see the market, they see so much in the market, and they kind of go down to this stage.
And it’s a, it’s an interesting model. Um, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had conversations with a couple of them about different things in the IT space and everything, and it’s a, it’s a interesting model ‘cause as a founder. You really do de-risk in a good way. You de-risk a lot. Like, you know, I think one of the biggest challenges for a lot of, a lot of the reasons that people do not become founders is purely the risk of, will I be able to fund this?
Will I be able like that? That is, I think there’s a lot of people who’d be amazing founders. They, they just literally cannot take the risk with their family and their this and they’re that. And like, and so having this model for me is actually quite interesting. ‘cause it feels like, it, it, it really gives you the ability to found the company for the right reason.
Which is like, there needs to be this company, but you don’t have, you can remove at least some, I mean, of course you’re taking risk and everything, but you’re, you’re releasing at least some of [00:27:00] that fear. Is that, does that resonate like that?
Matt: The, yeah, it’s, I would say it’s, it’s very friendly model for experienced, uh, founders and operators, uh, because of the reasons you explained. And obviously because of that you get a lot of benefit because you have people who are experienced
David: Right.
Matt: In running this, you know,
David: that’s what I’m saying. These are the people that wouldn’t meet. I mean, I don’t, you know, I don’t know every person who goes through it, but I know some that have that would never do it if it wasn’t for this model. But they’re very good.
Matt: That’s right. Or, or, or they’ve done things before and they want space to, to, to be able to, you know, evolve it and focus on the problem at hand and to your point, worry less about fundraising and, um, and also use the network to be connected with, uh, with other people who can help on, on the project.
So, um, so you’re
David: I
Matt: right out of the gate, um, a company like Crescendo, uh, has a much, much bigger chance of being, [00:28:00] you know, a multi-billion dollar company
David: right.
Matt: if, if I’d gone, if I’d gone and locked myself in a basement for, for, for three to six months and tried to figure out what we should be doing, you know?
David: you as CEO, what is the one thing that you thought would be easy about the job, but turned out to be hard?
Matt: Oh, that’s such a good question. Like everything. I think, um, something I didn’t really think about so much was part of your job is to really keep the company focused. Um, you know, when you are a fast growing company, in a fast growing market, you get so many opportunities come to you. So many of them being flattering, you know, in large partners wanting to partner with you, everybody wants a conversation with you. And being somewhat, I wouldn’t say ruthless, but being [00:29:00] polite on the assessment of, okay, does this help us get to our next stage? Um, you know, where we’re at and does it help us to get to where we are? So I think I, I underestimated the amount of inbound and a lot of interest that
David: Hmm,
Matt: be in the business, which is obviously very flattering. But, thing that comes with that is also, uh, making sure that. Spending on time what matters today rather
David: hmm.
Matt: On the immediate horizon. And so that’s about getting customers successful
David: Yeah. Yeah. That, that advice if, if people take, there’s a lot to take away from this so far, but if, if they take that away, that may be, that’s such important advice. I, I talked to so many, so many CEOs who said, oh, I gotta, you know, this Workday reached out to me, Salesforce reached out to me, Google, I said.
You know, bank of America wants to buy my product. I’m like, you don’t even have a single customer Bank of America reached out to, like, they’re not buying your product. Like, let’s not even [00:30:00] waste the energy on, on, on this. But it is very, you said it interesting, like you feel it’s flattering. You kind of get some outreach of Salesforce wants to talk to me and, and you’re like, okay.
Then you realize, first of all, half the conversations are then just digging because they just wanna copy whatever you have. And then the other part of the conversations are them, you know, just like learning and talking and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it’s gonna be years if anything ever comes of it and it can put you, I mean it can literally be such a distraction for the CEO.
‘cause of course they want the CEO involved and they want this and like, so that’s, that advice is,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: Is gold.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, many cases, I mean. It’s rare that I won’t take a conversation and know this. It’s good. You know, I mean that, that doesn’t have to be long and to, and you learn a lot from the engagement
and, and what people are trying to understand and where they’re coming to. I feel like part of the job of the CEO though is also to protect the [00:31:00] organization from anything that will be a distraction.
So as many cases I’ll have a, I’ll keep the relationship going and, and when I feel the time is right, then I’ll involve other
David: Right,
Matt: the organization rather than them spinning up wheels. Because the challenge then is that, oh, this has come from the CEO and it’s a big brand, therefore I need to make, then I need to make sure I absolutely put all my best effort into this.
David: Right, right.
Matt: all you want them to do is put 3% attention into it and focus on their main job. So, you know, making sure that that alignment works, you know, and that’s the other thing from a, you know, CEO perspective, I’m sure other people will understand is. Just being respectful of when you ask somebody to do something, especially as the company grows, um, that thing becomes very important to them. Um, you know, just by the very nature of it, it’s the CEO o asking them to do it. So being careful about, uh, spinning up ideas or if [00:32:00] you’re brainstorming, making sure that something is that the person who you’re working with in that moment understands what their expect, your expectations are, what they should or shouldn’t be doing after that
David: Hmm. um, when you say, you know, I think it pe we don’t, CEOs, uh, I think when I talk to most, including myself, you know, we all have imposter syndrome, most people have imposter syndrome to some degree, and you think to yourself like, okay, I have the title of CEO, but I’m just like anybody else. But then to your point, sometimes that.
Is that is not, I mean, it’s true to yourself, but when you say to someone, Hey, I think we should do this. They say, oh, the CEO, Matt said, and now it all becomes, it becomes, they probably telling their colleagues, no, no, I gotta work. Matt said, know.
Matt: Especially if you grow really fast. You know, I mean, a year, just over a year ago, you know, all knew each other, you know, it’s like 10, 15 people. And so you have to change your operating and communication patterns when you’re, you know, when you’re thousands of [00:33:00] people within
David: Hmm.
Matt: And it’s this constant recalibration of understanding of, of, you know, what, where you are in a business and how, and how you should be communicating, and how you should be interacting with team members because not everybody in the business you’ve had a chance to have a beer with or a
David: Yeah.
Matt: With,
David: Right, right.
Matt: So and so, it’s. I think it’s an important point, you know, just constantly thinking about what that impact is on the business and making sure that you’re not distracting people.
David: Right. On the flip side, you can actually use that as, as you’re saying all this to me, you can use it on the flip side, which is you calling someone or saying Good job or something like that. A small thing means
Matt: yeah,
David: much to people just because again, you have the title, which is a weird, it’s a weird thing, but it’s true.
Like you call, I’m sure if you go and call someone and say, great job on that deal, great. They probably, they’re telling their friends, their family, like CEO called me and said this, you know.
Matt: yeah, that, that is right. I mean, I spent a lot of time, [00:34:00] we have a number of Slack channels. I, I spent a lot of time reading in Slack channels and then dropping notes in here and there. So acknowledging somebody who’s done a good job, uh, or, or things that we like. But also I have, you know, obviously as CEO have the power to prioritize as well.
So every one of our customers who goes live, we have. We monitor, we’re monitoring everything that’s going on and we’re monitoring how well is, what is the quality, how well is the ai, uh, are the handoffs happening? Well, uh, you know, which is unique I think, for our business, being able to see things end to end. So I’ll spend time, a lot of time monitoring in those, in those channels, see what’s going on. And sometimes you spot things, oh, that maybe something’s falling through a crack and that’s some of the power you have. I can, I can get in there and I can get stuff solved in five,
David: Hmm
Matt: That might have taken a bit longer.
So it’s, it’s all about using, using the path for good.
David: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: On the right. [00:35:00] Thanks.
David: Um, I want to go back to something you said about the outcome-based pricing that you mentioned. This feels like something that’s. Everyone’s, a lot of people are talking about now is like, pricing is gonna change. Do you believe for your business, I think what you’ve described makes sense.
Do you think this is just where the market is going, that the whole SaaS per seat model, like, is that going to outcome based across the board or just in the logical places? Like, this?
Matt: There’s definitely a, trend towards it. It’s, and and you know, at a philosophical level it makes a lot of sense. If you think about our business, you’ve got an end user who just wants to get a problem solved anytime. in the day they want. Their outcome is that they can contact you and they can get their answer. that actually. Doesn’t match at all to the incentives of maybe a seat based SaaS
product [00:36:00] Or, A BPO that’s charging for labor or the organization that’s the client is providing the support that, is looking to get as much CSAT as possible in, you know for the most economic way. The great thing about outcome-based pricing is that you can align all the way through, the chain from the customer to the client, to the actual providers.
The challenge that we have at the moment is that a lot of people talk about outcome-based when they’re just providing one small slice of the solution. so we talked earlier about say, you know, bolt on bots, that’ll talk about outcomes and they resolved so many things, but what they’ve also done is on the backend reduced CSAT by 10% and the rest of the business, And they’re not being penalized for that outcome. they’re not being rewarded, but they’re not being penalized. So. I think we’re seeing the beginnings of it. What we like about it for our business is the two things. Firstly, we can genuinely [00:37:00] say that an outcome is end to end, you know, from right from the inception of the customer to delivery of the resolution. But the other thing I like about it is when you start a business, you actually think a lot about how do you establish things early on in the business before it gets too late. That can be formative, whether they’re silver bullets or whether they’re systemic things. And I think what we discovered quite early on is if you charge your customers according to hours OR seats, everyone in the company thinks about hours and seats because. Everyone in the company knows how you get paid. Whereas actually, if you think about it as outcomes, if we don’t get paid for a dsat, which is we don’t, then everybody in the organization is motivated not to create DSATs even if it was their fault or not. and this
for me, is a
suprising outcome of, outcome based is, the way that you can use this to[00:38:00]
focus your company on the right things,
David: That’s a good point. Right?
If everyone understands, if everyone thinks in seats, you’re constantly thinking, how do we get more seats? I mean, basically,
Matt: yeah. I’ll tell you what BPOs do. I mean, you know, BPOs, they provide labor In the classic BPO model. Companies will try and get the lowest cost labor they possibly can, and for the highest quality people, and they’ll do a lot of due diligence. They’ll go around a lot of BPOs and focus on the way up. But when all you have to sell is labor, the solution to everything is you try and sell more labor.
David: It’s the only way to grow the account, basically. Yeah.
Matt: Yeah. You say the ratio of manage or you want high quality, the ratio of people to managers needs to be one to six. And when you go above six and you need another manager in, and what you end up with is a heap of waste and hidden cost. And same thing on, tech by [00:39:00] the way. The number of seats that get wasted, that people aren’t
using So the amount of waste in the business is huge even without ai. And so what we’re finding is that with outcome-based, we’re finding a way to eliminate a lot of that waste and then repurpose it to where it should be.
And,
what that Might mean is that you can move hours, extend hours, you can add another language, you can innovate a new function as well. And that’s, a cool outcome of outcome.
David: and the challenge, the, good thing for you is that anyone, the BPOs, the incumbents, you can’t really do this because you literally cannibalize the entire business I mean, they can’t, and the whole business would collapse basically.
Matt: Yeah, I mean, changing any type of foundational pricing model is, or the way you get paid is incredibly difficult for a company of any
size Really because you’re changing philosophies structures,
David: Systems. Yeah.
Matt: [00:40:00] systems. Yeah. I mean, you know it, right? So, you know I think that that’s one thing, and I think that we’re seeing this as a challenge for a lot of the SaaS companies at the moment, is a lot of them are trying to move to this model, but it’s confusing for the customers about when are they paying for seats, when are they paying for,
usage? They want to switch from seats to usage. and ultimately There’s no net gain,
you know From a lot of the organizations So it’s challenging and again, part of the thing about building a new business is understanding the privilege that you have is to invent things in a new era. So we’ve invented our companies in, the AI era.
That means our product is fully integrated for ai and it’s AI ready and based upon, other items but it also means our economic model, you know, outcome-based being a new economic model. We are born in the era of outcome based, and so we
don’t have The legacy that we have to deal with there.
either
David: you’ve grown this fast in this period of time. Part of it has been you’ve acquired [00:41:00] companies, To grow this fast in this period of time while also acquiring companies like you are like compiling every hard thing on top of itself, you know, uh, like to do that. Like, is that, do you have an m and a kind of background machinery like that you brought to the table?
Is that something general Catalyst, other co-founders? Like how have you been able to do that? How much of that have you been doing? How core is that to the strategy?
Matt: M and a’s core, our strategy, I mean, this is a huge market opportunity, but AI for customer service is, is a crowded market. I mean, we have amazing technology. I say it’s the best technology for ai cx, but that in a noisy market, that doesn’t just automatically make you grow and successful. So you’ve gotta have great distribution and, and, and you’ve gotta have a unique approach to distribution.
So when we founded the company, we said that, okay, we’re going to try a different approach here and we’re going to buy BPOs, um, you [00:42:00] know, who are lab based, labor based BPOs, and there are thousands of them. And what we’ll do is that we will then help. customers upgrade to be AI native using our, using our technology.
And we’ll give them lots of support and incentive in order to do that, we’ll retrain the teams and we’ll do everything for them you know, to move up to that level. And that was our, that was our hypothesis. so we did that with the, uh, we, we’ve done that and we’ve proven it works. We have, you know, hundreds of happy customers who have gone through this process. They haven’t had to spend an extra dime, they haven’t had to invest anything else in, in customer care. We just take care of it for them in the same way that we would take care of them before. So, um, obviously that is quite unique because there’s more to the simple way is to just organically attract customers
David: Yeah.
Matt: and then you run them through your cycle, you know, and we do have that model.
We have a lot of people coming to us and we do, but the, some people call it a roll up, [00:43:00] uh, you know, approach. a great way to get accelerated, uh, distribution and, and bring our value quicker, you know, to customers. Um, going back to your original question, because that was part of the original philosophy, you know, Andy, you know, co-founder had done, had done many of acquisition deals before. integrated, I think the last three or four acquisitions into Zendesk. That was part of my role at Labs, uh, when I was there. So know a thing or two about it. Every, everything’s unique, but,
David: You have those muscles in the, on the team.
Matt: yeah, you can, you, you know what to think about, you know, what actions to take because, you know, you’re acquiring an amazing asset in the business, um, with customers and employees and just making sure that you say you do the right things by them,
David: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Um, upfront.
And you obviously, you have fo you have financial objectives from, from the acquisition. Um, [00:44:00] but it’s very tempting to be focused in the, in immediate term, on those, rather than taking care of what’s really important for the long run, which is, you know, a, a, a fast, fantastic integrated culture where people feel reassured about the future and feel very motivated about the combined offering for
David: Hmm. I, it feels like in this, in this new world and this AI era, this is a obvious, like when you have a, you have the capital, when you have the team, when you have the technology, this seems like just such an, because to the conversation we just had, the BPO can’t reinvent themselves, but you can reinvent them, and
Matt: that’s right. The, um, I mean, BPOs, and don’t get me wrong, I mean, the founders and leaders of these organizations are very impressive people. You know, they’ve built, you know, business that built, built. Businesses, tens, hundreds of millions of dollars run good operations in short amount of time taking, take care of other people’s customer care in a great way. But, [00:45:00] and, and many of them have actually created technology divisions in order to help, you know, help their customers. very few. In fact, I can’t think of any who have succeeded in doing that. there’s just a dynamic of, you know, to attract the caliber of AI engineer that we have within our organization. It helps to be venture funded. There’s upside, it helps if you’ve got a, an ethos there. So crescendo very much is this fusion of, of, you know, Silicon Valley deep AI tech plus the, you know, and then we take the BPO resources and we think actually first about how do we use those people to enhance.
David: Right, right.
Matt: Deployment of the ai. And once you get into that mindset, you’re a product company that has amazing support rather than a people company that’s trying to bolt on some, uh, some technology
David: Hmm.
Matt: That doesn’t work.
David: Um, it’s only been 18 months, but I [00:46:00] ask every guest this question, what is the biggest challenge you face so far at Crescendo, and how have you overcome that if you have,
Matt: I think, again, I think the biggest challenge, it goes back to what we said before, is, is just ruthless prioritization, uh, in the moment, uh, uh, of what to focus on. Um, but the, the challenge changes every, the, the, the challenges change, you know, every month, you know, kind of thing. I mean, 18 months ago I was setting up gusto myself. Probably the biggest challenge was actually trying to hand that off and the passwords and, you know, and
David: I know,
Matt: that
David: I know exactly
Matt: that went into the operation. So, you know, it’s, there’s just things day to day of, of taking things out of that. And don’t get me wrong, I’m glad I did all of that. I would had a fractional CFOA little bit earlier, but.
David: what I was told the first time. They said, you can no longer be the admin of Google Apps. I was very upset. I was like, you know, and then afterwards I was very happy that I wasn’t the one [00:47:00] adding users, you know? Um, so I know the feeling. Um, uh, where, where’s Crescendo in 2029? Basic, like three years from today, what, what does the company look like?
Matt: We are a multi-billion dollar organization, uh, with, uh, you know, we’re of the category leaders within this new era of ai, cx, ai, you know, the pure play platforms that are really providing this concierge level, uh, in front of companies doing customer service and shopping. Um, we have defined the market whereby nobody would dream of now trying to assemble five or six or seven different tools, and hiring a bunch of people.
Um, the same way that any mid-market manufac manufacturer now wouldn’t dream of building their own production line and staffing it. And so we are, we, [00:48:00] we have. We will be associated with the company that defined this new all in AI native approach whereby a customer service leader not spending all of their day evaluating different tech and trying to piece it together and figuring out what’s going wrong and hiring people and figuring out how to staff extra shifts. service designers, um, like Catherine at Lovepop, like Anthony at Partners there, and we are the people taking care of delivering the service for.
David: Hm. Um, okay. I want to transition, um, to your background a little bit. Where, where are you from originally?
Matt: I’m from a small town in England called Gloucester,
David: Okay.
Matt: I grew up. not incredibly well known, but unless you’re into rugby
David: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, did you grow up knowing you wanted to be in business, a leader, an entrepreneur? Was that something you know, from an early age you [00:49:00] knew, or, or that wasn’t till later in life?
Matt: it wasn’t till later in life, I, I knew I hated school. I didn’t hate it much, but sitting down in a classroom and sitting there and studying the same thing for hours on end wasn’t my gig. So I was very into doing things. I am, I think I saw my first computer a, a while back, and it was in a department store in, in, in the u in, in the uk.
And for some reason I, it was like a, I was like a moth to a flame, you know? I, I tracked it and I would, after every day after school, I would walk into town and I would basically. Hang around the computers and play around with them, I think. And after a while I think they thought I worked there and, and rather than throwing me out, I think I sold more computers than anybody to anybody.
So they let me hang out there. And so I learned to code, uh, in a department store initially, and then gradually convinced my parents to get me a computer. And then that was the thing that got me into college because I didn’t study enough in, uh, the things I [00:50:00] should have been studying, but I could code and, and, uh, I guess so back to your question, I, I guess that was indicative of, of, of one is create or do something
David: Whoa. You, you actually like went to the department. Like you, you would stand there and like
Matt: I stand in front of their machines Yeah. And just like around with ‘em initially and just through iteration. I mean, I didn’t really. I, I was just like trying to figure stuff out. I, I figured, I, I mean, I dunno, maybe I figured out there was a help commands clause and that would just list stuff out and then I say, experiment.
What does this thing do? Um, was some cool stuff that happened. I then went on and started to do advanced math, and then I suddenly realized, oh, okay, now I can, what I’m learning, while I’m learning theoretically here, I can actually implement, uh, you know, in, in code. And if I’m learning about, I can’t remember, like, uh, sign waves or, or
David: Yeah.
Matt: Something like I, I can use a sign, uh, sign wave function to, to do a, a missile game where you [00:51:00] can show a protection and, and adjust the variables on that.
Those things. I, I guess that, again, that’s curiosity and discovery. That’s fun stuff. That’s very good.
David: what did your parents think during that, during that time? Like, were they concerned that you weren’t like, doing well in school and spending all the time with the computer or was, you know?
Matt: Yeah. I mean. Yeah, I, I think, I don’t think they knew what to think, really. I mean, I think that they knew I was spending a lot of time in my bedroom, and I think as parents of young kids at, gone through teams, you don’t ask too many
David: Yeah.
Matt: About. But, uh, they were starting to see results coming. I mean, computers were pretty new at that time, so people weren’t quite sure what was going on.
But no, I managed to hold it down enough at enough
David: Wow.
Matt: especially, there wasn’t, there weren’t red flags going
David: Ah, and what was your first job when you, your first job after university or after?
Matt: Yeah. I got, um, I knew nothing about business or anything. I mean, I, I look at, I wish I’d known what I known now. I mean, I, I really knew, knew nothing about how businesses correct or [00:52:00] everything, so I just, um, I just answered an ad in the paper for, uh, somebody to do technical support for a software company.
I thought, oh, I can maybe do that. And I showed up. This is serendipity. It, it turned out to be a company called Boland. Um, uh, that, uh, my first job was answering tech support calls for C plus C Turbo, C Compiler, and Turbo Pascal compiler, which were the huge, um, things, I mean, for the listen and listeners or viewers aren’t aware, you know, look up Boland and what Philippe Khan did, an amazing entrepreneur at that time, um, through, you know, and a year later I was the marketing team in California. Uh, and because the company had grown so quickly, so, and from that group in time, the guy who ran a direct marketing was a guy called Mark Randolph. Uh, he went on to found Netflix. Um, my lead engineer was Anders Harburg. Um, he became, uh, um, [00:53:00] essentially the guy that invented C at Microsoft. So somehow. Luck was with me.
I managed to get on this.
David: Wow.
Matt: Was saying before I got on, I was able to get on the right bus and, get with the right people and, the rest is history.
David: I mean, the tech support is literally full circle, basically to where you are today.
Matt: No. And I say that to the team, you know, I mean, no, I know what it’s like. This customer service is hard job.
David: Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: It’s like, you know, we talk about ai, we talk about, okay, it’s a hard job, but let’s use these tools to make it easier for us. Um, let’s make it such that, to be that you would be a rookie in customer service and pretty much every question, many questions you didn’t know the answer to. now we provide our, uh, uh, associate customer service with expert assistance where they can get those answers
David: Hmm.
Matt: Quickly. You know, um, come to them less frustrated,
David: Right.
Matt: They haven’t been waiting so long on hold times. [00:54:00] So.
David: Uh, so you actually did the job. You did the job. Um, wow. Um, what was the biggest break in your career?
Matt: Joining Zendesk, it was, uh, in a 40 person company at the time. Um, yeah, and I was, uh, I wasn’t even sure whether to join ‘em. I had quite a good job, uh, you as CMO for a tech company, but I just started following them on Twitter as the, as it was at the time and look into it. Um, and SaaS seemed really interesting.
It seemed like a company was going somewhere, so it was a bit of a leap. Um, and then, you know, 10 years later, you know, it’s gone public. It’s multi-billion dollar organization, but the people there are amazing, you know, Mickel, the CEOI learned so much from him. Uh, amazing founder and leader.
David: Hmm. Um, did you have a mentor or some, like, have you had a mentor throughout your [00:55:00] career or you know, someone that’s really throughout, not maybe the whole career, but just someone that you lean on and have learned from specifically? I know, I’m sure many people, but,
Matt: Yeah, there, there, there are a few people. Um, there’s one person that’s been consistent. I’ve been in touch with, actually, guy who I met at Balland and the early days, a guy called Zach Locker. And Zach, I was delighted, came and me scale the business for a while at Crescendo as well. Z Um, Zach has had an amazing career in, in scaling businesses.
David: Hmm.
Matt: Um, now I think he’s, uh, um, now I think he’s, uh, an operational partner or, uh, index Ventures or
David: Hmm,
Matt: he’s, uh, incredibly, uh, supportive person. Uh.
David: in terms of like, to do this job, you know, uh, to be a CEO to do any of the jobs, you know, but, but to be a CEO, like it’s, it’s, um, it’s a lot, you know, it’s a lot every day, and of course everyone’s carrying the weight, but you’re carrying the most of the weight, [00:56:00] um, on your shoulders no matter what company it is.
What is it that drives you like on a day-to-day basis? What is it that drives you, motivates you, and keeps you like going through all the challenging times and the exhaustion and everything? Is it, what is it at the core that drives you?
Matt: I joke about this sometimes I, but I’ll give you an example and it’s things like this. So have company love pop. They do greeting cards,
David: I love that. Love that. I love that company.
Matt: Yeah, they’re amazing. They have a fantastic product and actually they have a great customer service ethos. So if something goes wrong. They will fix it for you. You know, so if, if, if, if, if the car’s not right. challenge they were having we started working with them was that even though I had a great product philosophy, it was hard, difficult for them within company economics to staff enough people to, to Im respond immediately to customers who are having, having an issue. What we were able to do [00:57:00] is take, then we were able to take them from a 24 hour resolution right down to a 15 minute resolution using AI and our people and restructuring the outcome of this was that once we started to do it, they just got started getting these five star reviews on Trustpilot after another for customer service.
And what has happened was that in the same way you show passion for product, because it is so cool, is that there, those are people in the, in the moment, you know, trying to get a card to somebody and if it’s not going well and we flipped the switch, we used the abundance of ai. provide, solve things for customers in that moment. And it’s just been incr, it’s incredibly fulfilling to see, wow, this thing is real. You know, we are really able to fulfill on the promise and change customer care for people, you know, for forever, but also change care, customer care. Now, their Trustpilot ratings went from a 3.6, which is average to a [00:58:00] 4.6, which is excellent within the space of a few weeks. And everybody who’s in e-commerce knows what that impact has on sales
David: Right,
right.
Matt: We are able to partner Catherine there and an amazing CX leader with, with, with Foresightful and do something that has made a huge difference to consumers and also the business as well. That
David: Hmm.
Matt: Incredibly much so when, if I have dark moments, I’ll just go and read Lovepop uh, Trustpilot reviews, you know, I just keep on going.
David: Um, all right, last question for you. Um, knowing everything you know today, if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice before you started that technical support job, what would that one piece of advice be?
Matt: Uh, think big, you know, just really, I think I’ve probably been able to do and been able to experience so much more I ever thought. Um, you know, [00:59:00] I give myself a little bit of credit of being able to seize opportunities when they’ve come and work hard in order to do it. But, um, spend more time really just thinking about what it would take to, it would take to do something bigger and not be, not be bounded by what, what I thought I should be doing, but, but really think about more of what I could be doing and what it would take to begin in that.
David: Good way to end the episode. Um, Matt, thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Congrats on the quick success, and I hope it continues. I, I’m excited about what you’re doing, and I, I, there’s a lot of, lot of gold in this episode, a lot of things for people to, to learn from. So thank you for sharing.
Thank you for being transparent. Um, thank you.
Matt: David, thanks to you. It’s been a pleasure talking to you. Really nice. Uh, hour.
David: Awesome. Awesome. For those listening, I hope you enjoyed. If you did, please share this out with [01:00:00] your networks and we’ll see you for the next episode of not another CEO podcast.
