What does it take to lead a global humanitarian organization through a pandemic and beyond? In this episode, Michael Nyenhuis shares how he has led UNICEF USA since March 2020, starting his role just two weeks after COVID shutdowns began.
Michael talks about building strong boards and leadership teams, the balance between confidence and humility, and how to create connection in a hybrid work world. With decades of experience in humanitarian leadership, he reflects on his journey from journalist to President & CEO, and how staying close to mission and people shapes lasting impact.
Find Michael's Newsletter here: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/relentless-6990692731056488449/
Takeaways:
Rebuilding the Board and Leadership Team: Michael explains how reshaping governance and leadership early in his tenure has been crucial to the success of every organization he has led. He emphasizes getting the right people in place who share the mission and bring diverse skills and chemistry to the table.
Evolution Over Revolution: Describing his leadership approach, Michael shares his belief in "relentless incrementalism." He believes consistent, thoughtful progress is more sustainable than sweeping change and that small steps taken regularly are key to building lasting impact.
Starting a CEO Role in a Global Pandemic: Michael began his job just as COVID shut the world down. He relied on daily video updates, creative communication, and a golden retriever named Izzy to build relationships remotely. He reflects on the benefits and drawbacks of trying to lead without in-person interaction.
Creating Culture in a Hybrid Workplace: UNICEF USA has embraced hybrid work, but Michael is intentional about maintaining connection. From monthly staff engagement days to leadership meetings and all-staff retreats, he builds structured moments for human interaction and relationship-building.
Honest Career Advice for Aspiring Humanitarians: Michael stresses that global development is a profession, not just a passion. He shares how expertise, formal experience, and training are key to entering the nonprofit space and why it is important to respect the rigor of humanitarian work.
CEO Roundtables and Mentorship by Listening: Michael hosts monthly roundtables with staff based on anniversary dates, offering space for Q&A and storytelling. He also invited youth leaders to mentor him, flipping the script to show respect and learn from the next generation of changemakers.
Balancing Confidence and Humility: Michael reflects on the need to balance strong leadership with the humility to listen. Early in his career, he sometimes over-relied on consensus. Today, he sees the value in trusting instincts while remaining open.
Quote of the Show:
"When you find what you're supposed to do, doors start opening." - Michael Nyenhuis
Links:
Website: https://www.unicefusa.org/
Ways to Tune In:
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Apple Podcasts:
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#NotAnotherCEO #BusinessSuccess #UNICEFUSA
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:28 Key Achievements at UNICEF USA
03:18 Building Effective Leadership Teams
14:13 Navigating Challenges During the Pandemic
20:14 Remote and Hybrid Work Dynamics
29:31 CEO Round Table and Onboarding
30:48 Operating Rhythm and Annual Planning
32:18 Monthly Staff Meetings and Engagement
36:22 Public Speaking and Media Training
39:55 Managing Diverse Constituents
42:36 Biggest Challenge: Leading Through COVID-19
45:16 Career Journey and Journalism Background
51:47 Mentorship and Youth Engagement
54:32 Balancing Confidence and Humility in Leadership
58:03 Outro
Transcript:
Michael: [00:00:00] When you find yourself in the right place, doors start opening. When you find what you're supposed to do, doors start opening.
And that's what happened to me.
David: Today's guest is a dedicated humanitarian leader with over 25 years of experience in global development and fundraising. He began his career as a journalist covering public health issues, which ignited his passion for humanitarian work.
He's a three-time president and CEO of non-profits and development organizations with global footprints. The for first organization he led was MAP International. After that, he was the president [00:01:00] and CEO of Americas for six years. And he's now been at the helm of UNICEF USA since March of 2020. Under his leadership, unicef, USA has continued to make significant strides in improving children's lives globally.
Please welcome president and CEO of Unicef, USA, Michael Nyenhuis.
Michael: Thank you so much, David. I'm so happy to be here.
David: I'm very excited we finally made this happen. Um, let's, let's jump right into the first question. So what's the one thing you've done big or small at UNICEF USA that has had the biggest impact? And you do, again, if you're CEO, of another organization in the future?
Michael: Yeah, great question to start with. Um, and I might start my answer by saying this, everybody in our organization, any of the organizations I've led, uh, are critical to our success. From the top all the way down, uh, everybody. Plays a critical role, really is a team sport, uh, that we play here. but leadership matters.
That's one of [00:02:00] my key takeaways. Leadership matters and, and what I mean by that, here in, in the nonprofits that I have run, has been our board of directors and my leadership team. So getting those two things right I think are, uh, critical and are among the, uh, very first things that a CEO needs to pay attention to.
And in all three organizations, I have been the privilege to lead. we've gone through, I. pretty significant board transformations, uh, early on in my tenure, and each one of them, not, not just prompted by me, but by board leadership, um, uh, as well, have really made a difference in creating best in class boards.
Uh, I've often heard it said that a nonprofit is only as good as its governing board. I think there's some truth to that. Uh, so we work hard on, on, on really, uh, on rebuilding a board, uh, making it best in class, bringing in the right people there. But that matters too in the leadership team, the people that are around me, the people that I count on every day [00:03:00] and count on the most, to make sure you have the right people there. Uh, that, that built a team that really likes to work together, that brings different types of experience, background, expertise to the table. And, um, yeah, if I were to do it again. Uh, I worry about the whole of the organization, but I'd start with the
David: Hmm.
Michael: And the leadership team.
David: And so you joined March, 2020, which we all know that we're gonna get into some of the challenges with joining, um, at that time. But how long does that process take, because that's a. That's not a small feat. Right. To, to, to go and build that leadership team. Build a board. Is that, I guess my question, is that an ongoing thing or is that a, a kind of definitive timeline?
Hey, it took me two years to do that one year. You know, what, what do you, how do you look at that?
Michael: Yeah, it's always a journey, right? The, uh, the building and the rebuilding and the remaking, uh, I think of, of both are a journey. But I think there's this intensive period in both of them in the first year or two, uh, where you [00:04:00] have to make serious progress. To make sure that you have the, the right structures, the right people in the right places, um, so that you can get on, uh, with the rest of the work. How long it takes? Depends, uh, a bit on, on the partnerships you have in the, in the midst of that, um, the transformation we did with the board here at unicef, USA. Uh, was pretty swift in large part because, um, we had a new board chair who came in the same time, uh, took over as chair at the same
David: Hmm.
Michael: Took over as
David: Hmm.
Michael: And he had a vision, uh, to make it a best in class board.
So we worked together. I. Uh, the board worked on this. Um, and, uh, so that kind of partnership, uh, is critical. And I would say same on the leadership team. Do you have, you know, two or three key people that you need who share that vision and they can help you, uh, to build. But I think, you know, focusing on that in the first year or two is really, really important.
David: Hmm. Do you, so having been through building a number of leadership teams, myself, a number [00:05:00] of boards, but let's, like leadership specifically, when you're bringing in new people, there's that whole forming. Storming, norming, kind of that whole motion that, that you, that you go through, how many people do you feel you can kind of bring in at a time, you know, that, that you can actually go through that?
I, I, I will say for myself, at one point I tried to hire four C-level execs. Literally simultaneously brought them in like sequenced within a week or two weeks or a month of each other, and it was. Like probably the worst, you know, following that was probably the worst six months I've had, you know, leading a team.
Like how, how do you, you know, how, how do you think about that?
Michael: Yeah,
well I think there, there was a time in anything that we do, certainly in building an organization, there is a time for revolution. a time for evolution,
David: Hmm.
Michael: It depends a
David: Hmm.
Michael: On the, the, the nature and characteristics of the organization that you inherit. Uh, so I was fortunate to not be in a place that unicef USA or AmeriCares before that, uh, needed a [00:06:00] revolution.
It needed an evolution as organizations do. And so there was an urgency I felt about it, but not, um, not things that had to be done, you know, tomorrow or the whole thing would
fall
David: That's a good description. that's a good description.
Michael: um, so I, I think evolution is better than revolution because, um, you can take. Uh, you can take a step at a time and sort of institutionalize those steps as you go rather than trying to start all over.
There are times, and you may have faced this when you had to, to bring in four, uh, C-suite people at the same time that a revolution is necessary. I. Uh, but the hope is that you can do this in an evolutionary process. But I also, I believe strongly in a, in a, in a term that I, picked up from, an economist years ago, and I don't remember who it was, but he used the term relentless incrementalism, which I like, which is to say it's the small steps taken regularly that you can build upon. but you have to be relentless about [00:07:00] it. so moving forward all the time. and being relentless about
it But you don't have to take giant strides. You can do it in small steps. As long as you are fortunate enough to come into a situation that isn't falling apart, it just needs revival and evolution.
David: Hmm. I like that relentless.
Michael: Incrementalism. Yeah.
David: I like, I never heard that before, but actually that's a good, that is a good description. I have a company I work with, they say better every day, you know, and it's like, I like that because it, it's actually better than. Like you said, trying to take massive step function.
Like I'm going to change everything overnight. It's like these, these little pieces. By the way, for the org, it's usually easier to consume also. Um, so when, when you talk about your board, how, how large is the board people wise?
Michael: about 20 members of the board.
David: Wow.
Michael: Yeah. And that's not unusual in our sector. My, my, my board at at, [00:08:00] at, uh, map was 16. My board at, at Ameri Cares was around 20.
David: Wow.
Michael: 20. Um, I, I think that's, that's, uh, that's relatively typical I think, um, in, in, in our sector.
David: Got it. And, and for your team, specifically the leadership team that you brought around you, what is the attribute that you're looking for? Like, what is that? If you had to, obviously there's many things you're looking for, but what is that number one attribute? 'cause you've been, you've led multiple of these types of organizations.
Like what is that attribute you're looking for?
Michael: Well, it's certainly not one thing. I would say it's several. One of them, uh, probably starts with passion for the mission, right? You can come here just to do a job. This is. This is, uh, you know, uh, in, in this case of unicef, a, a passion for, for children and young people around the world. So let's start there. Uh, and then, um, and then I think chemistry, you know, is it somebody who's gonna, I. Uh, that I can work with, uh, [00:09:00] that, that fits into the team. Uh, that doesn't mean carbon copies. We still believe strongly in diversity, different kinds of people with different backgrounds. Uh, but these are gonna people you're gonna spend a lot of time with.
Um, and you'll wanna, you'll want to, want to spend a lot of time. Uh, with them. And then of course is the, the technical capacity that they bring. Um, you know, their, their, their own professional backgrounds, uh, the work they've done in the past, and how close a fit is that to the, to the, to the needs that we have at the organization, at, at any
David: Hmm,
Michael: time.
So if you, if you find, you know, if you find all three of those things, uh, passion for the mission, the right chemistry, uh, and the, and the, and the appropriate technical capacity, I usually end up with a winner, uh, with that.
David: Do you, do you hire most people from the private sector or most people come from another nonprofit or, you know, what, what does that, what's the mix look like in the org? I.
Michael: Yeah, it depends upon the job. [00:10:00] Um. You know, I strongly believe in the nonprofit sector and the professionalism of the nonprofit sector and the people who've worked in the nonprofit sector who've committed themselves to this kind of work. Um, and so most of the people that we have, most of my leaders in the organization come from that sector. There are, uh, times when I think it's, it's, it's really nice to bring somebody who comes with a corporate background to bring a little bit. Different, um, viewpoint, uh, two, uh, two of those cases here that I think are important. Our chief marketing officer, uh, came from the commercial side. I think it's really helpful to have someone who brings that kind of commercial bent, uh, to marketing that's helpful.
And our, and our CFO, uh, comes out of the commercial world as well. And uh, again. You know, just thinking about the organization with a finance lens in the way a business would think about it, is helpful for, uh, for us. so
David: Interesting.
Michael: so I think [00:11:00] there's, you know, there's room for both, but, but you know, I. The nonprofit world, our, our particular world in global development and humanitarian assistance is a profession. There are people who've, who've studied their, you know, studied this, who've gotten the right jobs, the right internships, the right experiences, uh, to do this kind of work. In the same way that an accounting firm is gonna look for somebody
David: Hmm
Michael: out of an accounting background, we're gonna look for somebody and lean toward those people who've, who've done this kind of work
David: hmm. Yeah, because I feel, when you talk about passion, I feel like there's a lot of people who probably, I mean, especially for something like unicef, USA, like they. They probably want to get in, you know, they probably want to get involved. Um, I, I think at least I have friends that I know that have tried to make that transition.
And, um, I think what I'm hearing you say is like, it's not that it's just 'cause you did, you know, whatever, whatever. Over here, like the nonprofit world is its own structure, has its own skill sets, its own, [00:12:00] you know, abilities that people build over time.
Michael: Oh, I, I have, I have many, many times have had people who spent their career in the commercial world who, feel like they wanna do something with meaning
David: Yeah.
Michael: and wanna come over, you know, to this side. And, uh, and sometimes that works fine. Um, but I always try to remind them or help them understand, not remind them, help them understand the people who are in this work. this work. Uh, they went to school and got
David: Right.
Michael: that led them to this work. They got the internships that mattered to get these kinds of jobs. I remember somebody with a completely different background who came to me, actually was a, a lawyer and was interested in, you know, I think I'd really like to do humanitarian work, you know, like emergency response And I said, well, okay, so tell me about any experience you have in that it's actually a profession. People study this, uh, they, they, they, they [00:13:00] get the right jobs to get the right jobs in, in this. And I, I showed him the resume of the person I had recently hired to lead our emergency response work. You know, who, who, had done this work for 20 years.
And, again, uh, if you run an accounting firm. You wouldn't hire, uh, somebody from a completely different sector to do that job again. There are, there are places where that works. It worked for me early on, you know, I made
David: All right. All.
Michael: from, from being a journalist into this, and I made that transition by coming into a nonprofit to help with the communications side
David: Mm. mm.
Michael: right. So there was a sort of a natural fit there. And as I said, the, you know, my CFO. Comes out of a commercial background and, uh, look, this is finance.
David: Mm-hmm.
Michael: and accounting and, and budgeting and forecasting. And, and he's very used to doing that. Uh, our revenue streams might be different, but their revenue streams,
David: Hmm.
Michael: expense base might be different, but it's still expense.
Uh, [00:14:00] we, you know, um, anyway, I, it's a, it's a great sector to be in, uh, but it is a profession.
David: Hmm.
Michael: That people train for and, um, and, and move through just like they do in other careers.
David: So I think one of the things, you know, for an organization like yours, um, you know, if you joined a technology company March, 2020, everyone goes to work from home. You like, that's one thing, but you're an organization with global footprint. Programs all over the world. Uh, how did you, how did you get onboarded?
I mean, how, when you, when you started, I mean, what day that was like, the day that it started that I, I, I remember you told me it's right.
Michael: Yeah. So the, uh, everything seemed to shut down on March 13th. And I started work on March 30th. So two weeks, uh, two weeks after. It was a Monday. I remember our offices are here in New York where I am today. Um, and [00:15:00] uh, when I got, when I got hired, it was January and Covid was a thing, but you know, not a, it was a thing, but it wasn't like a big thing. Uh, by February, uh, um, I had, uh, been asked to come into the office. My. My appointment was made public. I came into the office here in New York to meet the staff.
David: Hmm.
Hmm.
Michael: you know, I got a sense of the building. It was full of people. and, uh, that was in February. Uh, and then, you know, by mid-March everything was shut down.
And when I, I remember the Sunday night before I started on Monday morning, the 30th of March, I'm sitting in my townhouse in Connecticut. and my golden retriever, and I'm thinking, I'm starting a new big job tomorrow and it's just gonna be me and you here in my little, in my little home office. Um, and it was a, yeah, a really challenging time.
I have made a, a mental note never take the next big job if, you know, a global pandemic is about to
David: You're
right, right?
Michael: if that's helpful to you or [00:16:00] any of your, of your listeners, um, it just makes it very complicated.
David: can, I can't, I can't imagine. Yeah. I mean, I can't. Did you, I mean, how did you, how did you meet everyone? How'd you get on board? How'd you know about all the programs running? Like how, how did you do that?
Michael: Well, number one, it helps that I come from this industry, right? So I understand the work. Um, I have been involved in it. I had seen UNICEF's work all over the world in, uh, in my other
David: mm.
Michael: doing, know, work alongside in various places. So none of that was a mystery to me. I'd run an organization that had fundraising programs and, you know, overseeing, uh, you know, all the operational pieces.
So all that was, but the, the key question is when you come into an organization new like that is to understand the culture of the organization and for the organization to get to know. You the leader, the new leader, right? How is that gonna happen? So one of the things that I did, uh, actually for the first [00:17:00] three months, every single day sitting at home in, in my townhouse in Connecticut, I would shoot a short on my iPhone. I. Um, and then three, four minutes. Uh, and then I would post it on our internal kind of Facebook page that we had at the time. Uh, and I would, I would talk about things that, uh, that I'm, I'm learning. Uh, I would talk about some of my experience. I would share a little bit about who I am, uh, and I would post these things and, and sometimes they'd be asking questions, and then people in the comments, staff in the comments would, you know, add their voices to it and whatnot. But it was a way for, for. Uh, at that moment with our staff suddenly dispersed, to stay connected to one another. Uh, to hear from the new CEO to hear from me, to, to, to kind of understand my thought processes and to keep people interested in watching the videos every day, I would bring my golden retriever.
[00:18:00] Izzy. them regularly, which helped. even today, so Izzy became a bit of a mascot, uh, during that time. And even today, people ask me, how's Izzy? We don't see Izzy enough. Where's Izzy? So, um, anyway, I think we had to, you know, just be, um, innovative and come up with new ways. stay connected. And I will say this, I mean, I think the disadvantage for me is I, it was very difficult to develop. Deep and more personal relationships with anybody, members of my leadership team, members of my board, you don't get to spend enough time with them. You don't get to go out for lunch or for dinner and, and just talk about the world and talk about life. And you're all doing meetings. Meetings and zoom opposed to, um, uh, spending time together where you actually get to know one another. So that was the downside on the upside, I, I met more people faster than I ever would have in a global organization. I met more people faster, uh, because we [00:19:00] were all doing Zoom and teams calls and, and things like that. So, uh, I didn't have to wait to meet somebody until I take a trip out to California.
David: Hmm.
Michael: could just meet 'em in a Zoom call.
Um, so I think, you know, I, I developed more. Shallow relationships and there's some benefit to that, but fewer deeper relationships in that first, in that first period. And frankly, to, to, to make the changes that you wanna make in an organization that, again, needs evolution. Not revolution, but just evolution. To make the changes that you need to make, you need to, people need to know who you are and what you're thinking, and you need
David: Hmm,
Michael: know them. And so I think we were disadvantaged some, uh, in that,
David: It's so interesting when you say, you know, I, I never really thought about it the way you just said it is like. You could access so many more people. So much fa I mean, so much faster than getting on the plane and flying all over the place. But it's impossible. I mean, literally impossible to [00:20:00] create the depth of relationship on a Zoom impo like impossible.
Um, and that's a really, uh, since, since, you know, kind of in the last couple of years is are you back in an office with everyone or
Michael: Yeah, no.
David: I.
Michael: so we've embraced remote and hybrid work. Um, you know, we have the offices here in New York, and if you come here on a Wednesday, you know, there's reasonable number of people, but not nearly what there was before. If you come here on a Monday, you're gonna be pretty much all alone. Um, and, uh, but what we've been trying to do is create intentional moments for staff to get together. Uh, so we've done a couple of all staff retreats since, uh, since Covid Relented, where we brought, and by that I mean the US staff, the entire US staff. We brought together twice, uh, teams kind of bring their groups together. I. every time we do, um, we do what we call an intentional engagement day once a month where, uh, staff in New York, um, in the New York area tend to come into the [00:21:00] office and we have lunch and we have a program and we interact with one another. Uh, and you know, we have a collection of people in the Chicago area and they all get together for lunch that day and see one another and talk about what they're doing, even if they're on different teams and don't see each other, regularly. so just to create some of that sense, look, we have, we have a really amazing staff.
I mean, really terrific people. high quality, caliber, nice people. You want to hang around and part of the benefit of working for our organization is you get to be with these people. And so if you're not with them. you're isolated off all by yourself and you don't actually get to interact with them, uh, in person from time to time, I think it's again, a real disadvantage.
I'm a strong believer 'cause we've adopted it, uh, in remote and hybrid work that it can work just fine. but you have to find those times where I. You are not isolated and you are interacting in
David: Hmm.
Michael: with
David: Hmm.
Michael: Gratefully, my leadership team, most of us are in the [00:22:00] New York area and we make a, uh, we, we are intentional coming in on Wednesdays, uh, so that we have our weekly leadership team meeting on Wednesdays so that we're, most of us are face to face, during the, that time and, and that helps a lot.
David: Yeah. You know, I think, you know, what's interesting is I, I mean there's, there's all the, there's so many benefits to remote work and the access to talent and all that. I, I actually think for the next generation of professionals, the people who came into the workforce March 20, you know, 20, 20, 21, like, I, I actually think for a lot of those people, they don't know what they're miss.
You know, you kind of feel like, oh, well we get remote work. This is great, but act, I would say a lot of my closest relationships were built. In an office in my early days, you know, and, and people getting to know each other and, and, uh, building relationships that years later I'm asking people for help with connections.
They're asking me for referral, you know, reference. And you, you don't have that, you know, and I, it's. It's, [00:23:00] um, I don't know. I actually feel like for that generation it's almost, it's an interesting dynamic 'cause it's the one that I feel wants remote work the most and then actually is missing the most from doing the remote work.
And I'm, I'm starting to see, I don't know if you're starting to see this, but I'm starting to see in interviews that I'm doing for the companies I work with that generation actually saying, you know what? I've been working from home since I graduated from college. And like. I kind of want to come to an office like, and, and I'm starting to see the, the slowly, slowly, but I'm starting to see that happening, you know?
Michael: Yeah, I, I, I'm not sure either way is better or worse. They have advantage each, each remote or in, in the Each has advantages and disadvantages, and the question is. Are you being intentional about maximizing the advantages and mitigating against the disadvantages? So, um, again, I hear, you know, CEOs who've, who are now [00:24:00] requiring people to come in three days a week or, you know, two or four days a week, and that's fine.
I, I don't think that's better or worse than what we are doing. has advantages and disadvantages. And the question, are you being intentional? maximizing advantages and mitigating the disadvantages. And I do think, and I, I say this to, uh, I've said this to some, some younger staff who, who've, who've, um, you know, having this kind of conversation with them um, you know, we will do everything we can as an organization to make you feel connected to the organization and to your, to your peers. Team meetings, uh, once in a while, a whole whole organizational retreat, meetings, we have. Virtual, all that. We would do things to connect, but you have responsibility yourself to not be isolated, build relationships with people, uh, on your team and across the organization. Um, you have to take initiative to do that, to build the kind of relationships you were just talking [00:25:00] about that are gonna last beyond their tenure
David: Exactly.
Michael: Uh, people they're gonna wanna keep in touch with. you know, we can't do all, it's not our responsibility. Uh, as an organization, uh, we will do what we can, but you have to do that yourself. You have to, you know, if, if you're remote and you're, you don't have a team around, you just schedule Zoom calls. meetings, a zoom call with somebody in the organization. You just want to get to know and spend 30 minutes just getting to know them and
David: Hmm.
Michael: a relationship. You never know what comes out of that. That's kind
David: Hmm.
Michael: water cooler
David: Yes. Yeah.
Michael: into somebody a water cooler.
Well create that moment, but you have to be intentional about it. Um, and, and, and again, you know, you can build a lot of those kinds of relationships, at least to a certain level. Because it's easy just to say, Hey, you got 30 minutes, let's do a Zoom call.
David: well if you do the retreats, the retreats is interesting 'cause the retreats definitely make a big, make a big difference because [00:26:00] even that short period of time, even if it's one day, two days, that period of time gives people that in-person. Connection, you know, that they can then carry on, I think then they can carry on on Zoom, then they can carry on on whatever messaging platform, you know.
Um, but I, I like that. Um, so, so how often have you done those appro? Is it like every couple of years or what's the,
Michael: we've done it t we've done the all staff, US staff retreat twice,
David: got it.
Michael: the pandemic. So in the last four years we've done it twice. We have another one, uh, scheduled. It'll be a year from now in the spring, uh, to do it
again.
David: People must love that. People must love
Michael: do. And, um, and we do too, but it's, you know, it's an investment.
It's not cheap.
David: understatement, understatement.
Michael: We have to be careful about it. And, but you know, there are other ways too. Like just today I had one of my monthly, I do what I call A CEO round table. And we, pull together, the HR team does this. We pull together a, group of staff from [00:27:00] across the organization.
We use, anniversary dates, to. pull a group of 6, 7, 8, 9 people. so they come from different tenures in the organization and different departments ross
and once a month, I just did it this afternoon. we just have a conversation, 45 minutes. and I always start by having everybody introduce themselves, because not everybody works together, right?
So introduce and where are you working from? And if you don't mind, if you're willing to do this, tell us one thing going on in your personal life, that you're willing to share. And we hear the most interesting things from our colleagues about who they are and what they do and things that are happening in their lives.
And somebody announces a pregnancy and somebody announces they're getting married and somebody tells us about the music band they play in. And, from that, my hope is that people will, see somebody that they have something in common with and will make a connection. and [00:28:00] maybe will reach out to that person and have another conversation and create that kind of community. That's just one of the things that we do to
try
to help build that.
David: So, just to I want to get tactical, 'cause this is a real, I think a lot of people could use this. So every, how often do you do these?
Michael: Once a month,
David: once a month. And how many people join?
Michael: somewhere. Let's see. We had, seven
staff and myself today,
David: So it's small.
Michael: Small. Small groups.
David: Yeah. And then everyone goes around. Does the introduction something about themselves, and then is it a what is what happens?
Michael: Then it's Q&A I always say it this way. I said, let's just have a conversation. Anything you wanna hear from me or anything you want me to hear? So kind of a
two-way. Anything you wanna hear from me? Questions about the organization, the industry, me, whatever, or anything you want me to hear? Something going on in the organization you think I should be aware of, that maybe I'm not, or [00:29:00] something you
or your teams
are feeling. so it's a little bit two way
David: Love that.
Michael: Turns out mostly to be, what they wanna hear from me. so I get lots of questions, about the organization and things we're doing and, things happening globally and happens with the us you know, what's happening with the US government
now and, all of that.
And sometimes people. Share kind of what they want me to hear too.
David: I like that a lot.
Michael: but they're
really good. They're really good. people enjoy them. 45 minutes goes super fast. I do this too with, new staff. We do a new staff CEO round table. so people can hear directly from me and on that. it's usually a smaller group, three or four. staff and, whenever we have enough new staff to justify it. And, on that, I always want them to hear from me about our mission, our mission statement. and our strategy. We have a [00:30:00] really robust onboarding program, for new staff.
They always tell me they love it, that our people and culture team does a great job on onboarding, but two things. Mission, like who are we and what we're about and strategy, what are we planning to do? I want them to hear that directly from me. so I, usually give a presentation on those two things.
And then we also have an open conversation.
David: I love
that. I love that I love the round tables, like, and because you do it by anniversary date, you're gonna get different people like, and they've had different experiences at different points in time. I, like that.
have you been doing that since, you joined?
Michael: for at least for the last three years probably.
David: Wow. Um, is there, what, you've mentioned a number of times the staff meetings, this thing, like what is your operating rhythm look like for the organization? Do you do an annual [00:31:00] planning with your leadership and the board and then you have monthly all hand, you know, staff meetings? Like how, how, what is that operating rhythm?
Look
Michael: Yeah, so we, um, our, our fiscal year runs July one through June 30th. So we do an annual planning process, um, that kind of kicks off, uh, a little bit before the holidays. Um, and then really, uh, cranks up in, uh. End of January, February, uh, March, leading to our April board meeting. And it's at the April board meeting, uh, end of April, uh, where the board where we put before the board, um, a refresh of our strategic plan.
So we usually have a three year, uh, uh,
David: Hmm. Hmm.
Michael: of updated every year, ba 'cause the world's changing so fast. Um, you know, the, the days of doing a three or five year plan and having it. Sit are over. So we update it every year and kind of push it out another year and then, you know, do a detailed operating plan [00:32:00] for the next fiscal Yeah. uh, and a, and a budget. then many of the staff are involved in that process in the, you know, January, february into March timeframe, and then the board approves it there. Um, so that's kind of that operating rhythm. Uh, and then. we have monthly staff meetings. We have occasional town halls on particular topics, uh, that we feel like the whole organization needs to hear about. the board meeting, you know, meets quarterly, the board meets quarterly. We've got very active committees that meet between the board meetings. Um,
David: And
you do the leadership team meeting, you said weekly, I think.
Michael: once a week, uh, once a week.
David: How long is that?
Michael: Uh, it's about 90 minutes every, every Wednesday.
David: Got it. And, um, is, is. How, like when you talk about these things, I'm always curious with people that they're operating with 'em. These things are like how rigid are meaning is the all [00:33:00] staff meeting, like that's once a month and that's once a like, that doesn't get missed or like you move in. Okay. Yeah. I, I'm trying not, it's a leading question.
'cause I talk to some people, sometimes CEOs and they're like, yeah, I do, I do staff meetings. Okay. When about once a month. I'm like about once a month and they say, well, sometimes six weeks, sometimes 12 weeks. I'm like. I mean, people, if they don't have, if they don't know that there's that meeting there, you
Michael: No, first,
David: know?
Michael: Thur, first Thursday of every month, dialed in. We have a team that works on it. Uh, uh, it's a, it's a whole, you
David: Oh wow.
Michael: hour long agenda. I usually do the first minutes with just some messages from me.
David: I.
Michael: Uh, we do a really nice, uh, again, this is a, or virtual, so it's a zoom, uh, meeting. Um, after I'm done, uh, we, we break everybody out into small group breakout rooms. kind of this, you know, just get to know one another moment. So
David: Hmm.
Michael: with a different group of people, four or [00:34:00] five people, and we have a question, some silly. Um, question for people to ask one another, and they have, people love this.
It's their highlight of the staff meeting, forget whatever I had to say in the first 15 minutes. It's this interaction with their te, with their staff, with their, with their fellow staff members, uh, in these small groups, you know, talking. Uh, about something off the wall or silly. then we come back and then we have a, a good program, uh, a good program.
People from different parts of the organization presenting some new thing they're working on. Uh, we have a, certainly a program focus on some UNICEF program around the world, so we get connected to the mission that way.
David: Hmm, Hmm.
Michael: structured meeting and we have a team of people that work on it and build the agenda and all of that.
And
David: I love it.
Michael: take, we take it very seriously.
David: I, I, I personally believe that those meetings are one of the most powerful hours, you know, that you [00:35:00] have in your, I mean, as a leader in your. Um, tool belt, you know, in terms of what you can do to motivate the team, inspire the team, align the team. I, I think people who don't do it and, and, and or don't do it with the structure and the intention.
I, I always tell people, I think you're missing a huge opera. Who knows where people in a month's time, a lot happens.
Michael: Yeah,
David: Not just in the world, in your business, in your organization, in your teams. Like, so I, I, um.
This is a big topic for me. This is like a big thing for me right now that I'm trying to,
Michael: yeah, we really lean on from across the organization to present their work to their colleagues. Uh, and uh, so you get to hear from all kinds of different people across the organization and all different types of work that's going
David: hmm.
Michael: Uh, and so it's a, it's a great way to keep up to date on the organization, a reminder of how many awesome people we have and the. Really cool work that they're doing. would say especially [00:36:00] we've chosen this remote hybrid
David: Mm-hmm.
Michael: in the office once in a while, kind of a, a methodology for us, it becomes even more important that we're doing that kind of a meeting and sticking to it and be serious about it.
David: One of the things, because of course in a nonprofit you have to fundraise and you have to bring money in. And I, I noticed specifically, you know, when, and I was doing research on you, like you're out there talking a lot and you're on panels and you're giving speeches and you're doing all that, which I think seems like a, sounds like a requirement probably for, for the job that you're in.
Is that, does all that come natural to you? Like did, did you just. Were you like that before you even got into these roles, you know, three roles ago, or, or have you had to work at that? 'cause at least from what I see, you seem quite natural at it, very easy. Like, you know, is that, is that natural to you?
Michael: Uh, natural. Hmm, that's a good [00:37:00] question. I've been doing it a long time. Uh, so there's that. I do think that my background in communications and in journalism and in, uh, being able to present information. Or try to present it in a compelling way, in a way that people can understand, which is really the goal of a, of a, of a journalist is to, is to present information in a way that people can understand and hopefully find compelling. I think that background actually serves me pretty well. In, um, in that, in, in this particular part of my job, sort of the external spokesperson kind of a role. Um, yeah, you have to work on, I've done, you know, I've been through, um, media training a number of times. Uh, I, you know, have had people around me in my life who, have been honest to say, Hey, that was really good and that stunk, and, uh, you might think about doing it this way.
So. [00:38:00] Um, yeah, so I don't know if it comes, na, it probably comes natural now, but I would say, uh, maybe also this, that what I mostly talk about is the work that we do, which is really compelling in itself, So work to improve the lives of children and families all around the world, um, is just infused with. Interesting stories and compelling narratives and with a passion, you know, in, in which to deliver it. That I think that helps. I'm, I'm not, you know, I'm not talking about, uh, um, I don't know. I don't wanna,
David: Yeah.
Michael: I don't wanna go anywhere with that, but I'm talking about stuff that people actually are sort of interested in, um,
David: Yeah.
Michael: and, and, and we find actually, you know, really compelling.
So it's easy to tell the stories.
David: I think, yeah, and I, I think what's important, I, I actually [00:39:00] believe this for leaders of any organization, doesn't matter. Nonprofit, private, commercial, doesn't matter. Like, you need to be able to do this. Well, I, I tell people all the time, like, I actually am not a natural, I. Good public speaker had to work very hard, was very uncomfortable with it.
But, but I think if you're gonna lead any organization of size with any external customers, constituents, like you have to be able to do it. And I think it's something I try to advise people, you know, a lot is like, even if it's uncomfortable, which it is for most people, you know, it's, it's, it's how do you get, how do you work on it?
How do you get better at it? 'cause I think, again, it's, um. It's being able to tell those stories, even if they're compelling stories, knowing how to actually surface those. Like that's, that's, I'm sure, you know, especially with an organization like yours, that's, that's what gets people to engage and that's, you know, um, and I, and I want to kind of keep going on that.
'cause I think one of the things, I've interviewed a couple people now who are running nonprofits, and [00:40:00] it sounds like in terms of constituents, you actually have a. Uh, maybe wider set of constituents than, you know, for-profit. You know, founder of a tech company, like you've got a lot, um, from internal to external, to the board, to the donors, to the programs.
Like, can you maybe talk through that and just how you manage that, which clearly you're good at, if you're at the third time doing it.
Michael: Mm-hmm.
David: you know, I'd love to kind of get your, your take on that.
Michael: Yes. You know, one of the things we talk about, uh, well, if you run a company. and you asked the, the leader of that company, who are your customers? They probably have a pretty good answer to that. It's the people who buy their goods or services. Right. Uh, we have an interesting, um, to look at that here.
Who are our customers? on the one hand, uh, our customers are, uh, the, the, the, the people, the children and the families in the communities around the world that [00:41:00] we serve. I mean, they're the ones we, we work for them. We try to deliver products and services, uh, that benefit them, that they want, that they see, uh, have value.
So on the one hand, that's our customer, the mother and the child in rural Malawi, uh, who are going to a clinic that's served by UNICEF to get their vaccinations and basic healthcare that they need to stay healthy. That's a customer. On the other hand, I could look the other way and say, well, the customers that I deal with. Um, actually more day-to-day in my role the donors who support this work. It's the company, it's the individual who's moved to, uh, to give away their resources, to help make this work happen. Um, we're serving them in a different way, and so we have to think about them as our customers [00:42:00] as well. So, we sort of look both ways.
Uh, who is the customer? Um, and how do we, how do we serve the needs of customers looking in both directions? So I think that does make it a little bit different maybe than, um, than a for-profit company who, who's pretty clear about the customer, who's buying their goods and
David: Yeah, Yeah, that's a good way to put it. That's a good way to put it. Um, what, what is the biggest challenge you've faced since you joined unicef USA four or five years ago, I guess five years ago now? Um, what, what is the biggest challenge you face and how, how, have you overcome that?
Michael: I, I do think it's starting at the beginning of Covid. Uh, you know, I, it is just, I hope I never have to do anything like that again. Um, it just complicates matters and makes things a little harder and slower than, uh, what? I mean, it was brand new for all of us, wasn't it? I mean, we, none of us had been through anything.
Like there's no textbook to go to. There was [00:43:00] no leadership book that said if you start your job in a global pandemic, here's some tried and true things that have worked before. Um, here's how you. You know, manage your organization. Uh, it just, um. It was, it was just very difficult without question. The most difficult part of the, the job has
David: Hmm.
Michael: has been that
David: Hmm.
Michael: wasn't expecting didn't, uh, you know, had no experience in how to overcome that.
Despite having been a CEO twice, been through lots of different things, economies collapsing, you know, times of plenty. Uh, deep emergencies, crises all around the world. You know, I've been through all of that, uh, but I hadn't been through, um, uh, a pandemic like we had.
David: Hmm
Michael: without question, that was the most complicated piece I.
David: Where is UNICEF USA three years from today?
Michael: Well, I, you know, uh, [00:44:00] if you look at our, uh, strategic plan, um, it would, it would, uh, tell you some of those things where I think we're gonna be in three years. But sort of, you know, broadly, I would, uh, I would say this, you know, it's our, it's our goal to have an even bigger impact on children around the world. Uh, that means we have to do even better job. In what we say is our mission, uh, here at unicef, USA, not our mission, our purpose, which is to rally the American people support this work. Our job in the United States is to motivate people, to influence people, uh, to be a, a force for good here that encourages people, individuals, institutions, the governments to, um, to take up the cause of, uh, the world's most vulnerable children. and help them out. And we wanna do more and more of that. So we have some, some big plans around some of the big initiatives that UNICEF is implementing around nutrition and around digital [00:45:00] education and around, uh, around, uh, children who are caught in emergencies that nobody's talking about that don't get any attention that are being sort of left out, to, to, to really make a difference in the lives of, of children through, through, through big initiatives like that.
David: Hmm. Um, I want to, I want to transition a little bit to your background. Um, where, where are you from originally?
Michael: Uh, I am from the Midwest, born in Wisconsin. Grew up in Minnesota. Uh, so yeah, true and true Midwestern.
David: And, and did you, so you started in journalism
Michael: Yeah.
David: Right?
Michael: know, it's interesting. I went to, uh, went to undergraduate school to study environmental science. I roommate who, uh, worked for the campus newspaper, said it was a great group of people, you should come over and hang out. I went over and hung out, got a few assignments to write some articles, decided I loved journalism. Uh, finished my degree in communication, started a [00:46:00] career in journalism, uh, which I did for about 10, 10, 11 years. And then, uh, then made a transition into the, into the NGO sector.
David: And, and that was, uh, you mentioned before because you got into communications that, that, like you got a communications job at a nonprofit.
Michael: Yeah, so I was, I was doing some reporting in, um, in Honduras of all places on, uh, on some global health issues. And, um, and I had, uh, I was visiting this little tiny. Uh, community, very poor community, and I met the local nurse in this community who had been trained as a nurse. She was from this village. She.
I'd been trained as a nurse. She'd gone through some public health, community health training. She'd gone back to her village to try to improve the health of, of children and families in her community. And I was so taken by her. She was a, she was this, this tiny little woman who was a giant, and, uh, she, [00:47:00] she just was transforming the place, uh, the way she. Um, really thought about public health, about community health, like not treating diseases, but how do you help people be healthy? working with farmers on agriculture techniques to grow, uh, more nutritious crops for the community, working with mothers on home environments and how to make them better and healthier. Working with children on, on, uh, hygiene issues and things like that. And she just was transformed this village. And I had, I had sort of epiphany moments, like, I just wanna help her. That's what I wanna do. Like how do I just help
David: Oh
Michael: That's, that's the job I want. What is that? What job is that to just help her? Because she seems to know what she's doing. Like what do I know from the outside? It's not my community, but she sure seems to know maybe she's get behind her. And, um, and over time, what I found, of course is there's lots of hers. There's lots of people
David: wow.
Michael: her. what I've been interested in my whole career now in the, in, in, in this sector is, uh, helping. Uh, [00:48:00] local people who have a vision improve their communities, carry out their vision, not our vision, but their vision. How do we help them carry out their vision? The first organization I, I worked for then, so what I did at that, at that time was I, I, gotta find my way into this world. How do I find this world that I, to know the, um, a US based. Now for profit that had done the training for her, for this nurse in community health, public health. So they must know what they're doing 'cause look what she's doing. I got to know them and, and, and found my way into that organization. Uh, on the communication side.
David: Whoa.
Michael: my, that was my entry.
David: What was, what was like your big break? Because I mean, to go, it hasn't been that long that you went from that to, to being CEOI mean,
Michael: oh.
David: relatively
speaking. Like what, what was the, what was the break?
Michael: right place, right time. Uh, a a little bit, but just one more piece about that their, their, [00:49:00] their tagline at the time, this was Map International, their tagline at the time was serving the servants. The whole idea was that the servants, like this nurse are the real servants, our job is to serve them. And I lo I loved that idea because that's what I felt in
David: I love that.
Michael: community. so so I joined this organization, communications. I was there at a time of a bunch of transitions. Uh, I, I like to tell people that I. that when you, I say say this to a lot of young people, ask career advice and things like that, I say, well, someday I hope it happens to you, happen to me.
When you find yourself in the right place, doors start opening. When you find what you're supposed to do, doors start opening. And that's what happened to me at MAP International. Uh, just kept getting, uh, jobs with more responsibilities there. And I ended up, um. Under the, really under the mentoring of, of a new CEO who came in, who sort of lifted me up through these various layers.
And I ended up being his chief operating officer. Uh, [00:50:00] he trusted me to kind of run the organization while he was the CEO. And, uh, and he left. um, and the board did, the board did a national search. Uh, it took 'em nine months to do it. in those nine months, they really came to like, what we were doing.
I was the interim CEO at the time. they, they, they thought, why make a change? We feel like it's going in the right direction. And so they gave, they took a chance on me. I was, I was young. I didn't have the resume for the job. but they liked
David: Uh,
Michael: and, um, I, you know, I, it wasn't me.
It was them giving me a chance and it, and it, and it worked out
David: well, were so that CEO, that, that was kind of like the person who,
Michael: He,
David: changed, changed everything, right? I mean.
Michael: he, he, again, he, he found me in the organization and he sort of pulled me up through different, uh,
David: Wow.
Michael: until I was the COO and, [00:51:00] when he left, um. Uh, you know, the board didn't have much of a choice but to ask me to, to, to, to lead it while they did this search. And I don't, I don't think I was a candidate in their minds initially. Uh, but gratefully the search took a long time. And in that time they, um, they, they came to like where we were headed and the team that I. Had in place and, and, um, and decided not to rock the boat and to, to give us, give us a chance. And they did. And it, worked out. It worked out for me. I mean, I feel really blessed.
I, you know, uh, sometimes I feel like I didn't deserve of the roles that I've had. Um, but I'm grateful for him.
David: Wow. Um, do. Do you, you mentioned people come to you and kind of talk to you about, you know, career advice. I'm sure, especially in non-profit world, I can't imagine not that many people in the presidency of multiple, you know, uh, at three already. Do you do [00:52:00] anything formally around, like mentoring or that kind of, or it's more just, you know, as you come, people kind of come across you.
Michael: Yeah, more, I would say more of that rather than formal mentoring. Talk to, you know, we, we have, um, we're unicef, USA, we're focused on children and youth. I. We have a lot of youth who are involved with us. We've got a, here in the
David: Hmm.
Michael: States, we have UNICEF clubs at colleges and high schools all across the country.
We've got more than 20,000 youth that are part of that. We have a national youth council, which is kind of the
leadership body of
David: Cool.
Michael: We interact with them all the time. and so I have lots of chance to interact with young people and lots of chance to have conversations with them and answer their questions.
But the most. Powerful mentoring that I've had was from the youth themselves. So this was last year, and for half a year, uh, I took on three young people as mentors to me. Uh, I wasn't mentoring them, they were mentoring [00:53:00] me. So we believe strongly the importance of youth at the table. That they have a voice, that they're not just about the future, but they're about the present. we are, uh, when we talk about UNICEF's work, we talk about it this way. Every child, healthy, educated, protected, and respected, and the respected piece I. um, the fact that they are people who have points of view, uh, who have a unique point of view that we don't have. And so they need to be at the table.
We need to hear from them. So as a part of that, I took on these, uh, three members from our, um, from our National Youth Council who were my mentors for half a year, and I would meet them once a month on a Zoom call and I would share with them stuff I was working on. And ask, what would you do in this situation?
What's your point of view about this? And I would ask them, you know, what are the
David: Wow.
Michael: What are, so, um, I made it really clear they were my mentors, not [00:54:00] reverse. If I could be helpful to them, I would be, but it was really about, I want you to mentor me. Um,
David: Wow.
Michael: It was really really lovely.
David: Uh, I love that. Um, knowing everything you know today and all the experiences you've had, um. If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice before you started your first job in journalism, you know, back then, what would that one piece of advice be?
Michael: I think it is to, um, be really, um, I. Aware of the balance, the needed balance between confidence and humility. So what I mean by that is, look, I, you know, I'm a leader of an organization. I have a vision for the organization. I have a point of view, I.
have experience to back it [00:55:00] up. I believe in what I'm saying. I have confidence in, the direction that I'm talking about. But, at the same time, I don't know everything. I'm not the smartest person on the planet. I'm not the only experienced person. I got lots of experienced people around me. I got lots of young people who are giving me cool ideas. and so finding the right balance in leadership to. Give people confidence that you are confidently leading, but not so much that you don't listen to anybody. And I think early in my career, I didn't have enough confidence. I was young, I was new. It was all new to me. I probably had some gut feelings of things we should do or not do, and I didn't.
I didn't, I didn't follow them. Um. And probably listened. You know, try to build consensus all the time, and sometimes you [00:56:00] just, you have to just lead. Um, but over time I think I've found a bit much better balance in those two things, and I hope today, uh, that I don't always lead with the confidence that I have enough humility to bring the other voices there.
But I think finding this balance between these two as a leader
David: Hmm.
Michael: is really important.
David: I think that's really, I, I find, you know, it's a little bit, I, I, my opinion at least is like, because of imposter syndrome, which I think many people kind of deal with and face, I. At every level, you know, um, you end up in situations, you don't really know what the right, you, you want to be confident, you know, and you almost may not want to be so humble, if you will, and be listening.
'cause you want to prove like, I know how to do it. And then in other cases you're like, I don't know how to do it, so I'm not gonna be, and that balance is really. Uh, I I think for, you know, for, I think for most, actually for most human beings, I think, you know, that that's a reality of, of, [00:57:00] of imposter syndrome and feeling that.
And when you get more confident, you actually can do both simultaneously. 'cause it doesn't, it doesn't come across as weakness or ego, you know, it's like,
Michael: Yes. Yes.
David: no one's given this advice. I, no one has said this, so I think I've interviewed 50 people so far. No one's said this. And this is a really. That's a great way, um, to end this.
So,
um,
Michael: And I think the way that you said that too, the difference, you know, it's between, between ego on the one hand. And how did, how did you phrase that? You said ego on the one hand and.
David: yeah, it's like o it's like the overconfidence, you know, it's kind of like, you know. Yeah.
Michael: It, it, this, this is the, uh, again, it's a struggle. It's a
David: Yeah.
Michael: all the time, but I think being aware that it's a struggle and always trying to find that, that balance, um, has been, has been helpful to me. And I, you know, I'm, I'm fortunate to, I'm leading my third organization now.
It's been 20 years. Um, I have a lot of
David: Hmm.
Michael: doing this, so I hope I'm [00:58:00] better at it today than I was when I started.
David: Um, Michael, I, I really, really, I appreciate this. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for responding to my cold outreach and, and being willing to join me for this. I, I'm happy to capture this and, and share this story, so thank you very much.
Michael: Well, thanks so much for having me appreciate, uh, uh, the, these things that you do and, and help us help all think about our jobs and in a new way.
David: Thank you. Well, hopefully everyone who's listening, you enjoyed a lot of good learnings from this. Um, and if you did, please share this with your networks and we will see you for the next episode. If not another CEO podcast.
[00:59:00]
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