This episode features Ryan Westwood, the Chairman and CEO of Fullcast, discussing his career and the strategies behind growing successful businesses. Ryan, who has been involved with nearly 100 companies, shares insights from his experience at Simplus, which he grew to over $650 million in revenue before its acquisition by Infosys.
He emphasizes understanding customer personas and the importance of one-on-one interactions in driving business success. Ryan also shares his approach to fundraising, building the right team, and navigating the challenges of scaling a business. He advocates for deep customer understanding, sticking to a defined ideal customer profile (ICP), and the strategic use of AI in RevOps.
Takeaways:
Jump Right In: Don't hesitate to dive into challenges head-on. Taking decisive action is often the first step toward finding effective solutions.
Identify High-Impact Areas: Focus on areas that have the biggest impact on your organization. It’s important to prioritize tasks and projects that drive the most significant results.
Value One-on-One Time: Prioritize precious one-on-one time with your team. Personalized attention can foster stronger relationships and address individual needs more effectively.
Deliver Consistently: Consistent delivery of work and results builds trust and reliability within your team and with stakeholders. Ensuring that you follow through on your commitments is a great way to build loyalty.
Communicate Often: Regular communication is key. Whether it's calling individual team members or holding regular meetings, keep the lines of communication open to ensure everyone is aligned.
Focus on Direction, Not Speed: While speed can be important, it's more crucial to ensure that your team is moving in the right direction. Align on goals and ensure everyone is headed toward the same objectives.
Quote of the Show:
“It's so important that as an entrepreneur, we're humble…And I think a lot of entrepreneurs lose precious years because they don't ask enough questions.” - Ryan Westwood
Links:
Website: https://www.fullcast.com/
Ways to Tune In:
Spotify:
Apple Podcasts:
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/7c6328f0-9b42-41db-8fe2-d263b4fbb261
Transistor: https://podcast.notanotherceo.com/
David: Today's guest is one of the most impressive entrepreneurs and operators I've ever met. Over the course of his career, he's been involved with almost a hundred businesses and organizations as a board member, advisor, investor, and operator. He's been a driving force behind putting the Utah tech scene on the map.
As Chairman and CEO of his last company, Simplus, he grew the business to over 650 million in revenue. That business was acquired by Infosys. His current company is an AI enabled, no code, [00:01:00] RevOps platform that empowers go to market teams to do capacity planning, territory and quota management, routing, performance to plan tracking, and a lot more.
Please welcome Chairman and CEO at Fullcast, Ryan Westwood. Hey Ryan.
Ryan: Hey, thanks for having me.
David: I'm really excited for this. Um, you know, you and I have been talking a lot. I'm, I, I'm excited to get your, your knowledge into everyone's head. So, um, we're going to jump right into it. First question. What's the one thing you've done at Fullcast, big or small, that's had the biggest impact and you'll absolutely do again if you're CEO of another company in the future?
Ryan: Okay. So, uh, this is really fresh for me because we have two quarters completed at Fullcast um, what we've done is dive in deep into the persona of our customer and the ICP. So not just saying, okay, this is the type of customer, this is who we're selling to, but really deeply understanding them. So let me [00:02:00] give you some examples. let's see, I've talked to more than 60 VPs of RevOps. this two quarters, here's a few things I learned. They're very responsive between about 10 and midnight. They're the hardest working people. They're unsung heroes. You think about when you hit the revenue mark, the CRO usually sees credit. When you are efficient and you're a machine and you hit the EBITDA mark, The CFO usually gets credit, but the, the rev ops leader is the one that's putting together the strategy where the rubber meets the road from the board and the CEO, but they're really unsung heroes. So, so they don't get a lot of credit for all the production they create within an organization and efficiencies. other thing that's interesting is, is it's still new enough that there's a lot of debate about who they should report to. So I started serving and asking them, who do you report to? Well, about half of them are to the CRO, then you have about 15 [00:03:00] percent to 20 percent to the and you have 15 to 20 percent to the CFO. And then you have this emergence of the chief commercial officer. So where they report the scope of the departments they touch is changing too from, are they just. Influencing ops from sales, marketing. Are they, are they involved with product, customer success? So there's so much I'm learning and diving deep into the minds of our RevOps leaders that I feel like, um, I'm, I almost feel like I've become one of them over the last couple of quarters.
And I feel so much more capable of speaking to them, selling to them and providing products and services that they really
David: Hmm.
Ryan: Because I have put my heart and soul into understanding how they operate and what they think about.
David: Wow. When you do these meetings, is it always one on one with them or is it group, group settings or.
Ryan: I try to make it one on one. [00:04:00] If it's a group setting in like a dinner, I will make a point to move around the table and I will say, Hey, I want to make sure, and and I'll state to everybody. I want to make sure I get one on one time with every one of you.
then I will make my way around the table and move and play musical chairs because I want to make sure that I have that precious one on one time.
And I think right now, if anybody's really honest, what's moving business forward is that one on one committed time. That's how it's happening.
David: and when you have these meetings, are you somehow taking that information and returning it back to the company at large or the executive team? Hmm. Hmm.
Ryan: fun because I've been able to share that in company meetings, in my messages, and then in our executive meetings, and I've been using the AI note takers and getting the information back to [00:05:00] the team and to the product team. And to the point where. Now I feel like when I get on the phone, I'm not just showing up as the CEO, but I'm showing up as a thought leader or somebody that can help be insightful and add value to the RevOps leader that I'm on the phone with.
David: you know, you and I talked about this. I, I, I love this. I mean, I always talk about one of the most impactful things I ever did at BetterCloud was when I met with a hundred people in a hundred days, a hundred customers in a hundred days, one on one like you're talking about, and it was so powerful, but I found it so Energizing and exhausting, you know at the same time and I think you to what you said like there's no shortcut actually to this you you have to make the time and the energy and really connect with with that buyer and that customer and I think people try shortcuts to this.
Oh, we'll survey a bunch of people. We'll [00:06:00] do a dinner and I'll talk to, you know, 10 people at the dinner. Now I know the customer it's, um, it's, it's impressive really when you, when you take the time and I'm sure for the team, it, it shows how much you, to the customer, for sure, it shows how much you care and to the team as well. Hmm.
Ryan: I had, I would typically have a propensity to focus it on Insular into the business, right. And to be focused on how I can be. Uh, helpful to the organization as an operating CEO. And I think there's a propensity not to pause things and to do that, but it will make you so much sharper as a CEO and the value you add to your leadership team, to your company, because like you said, you're, you're now insightful.
You're now an expert on what your customer needs. Instead of guessing or flying blind, I think it takes a lot of arrogance [00:07:00] as a CEO, not to take the time to deeply understand those customers. You're, you're really flying by the seat of your pants. If you don't really understand them.
David: How did the. Customers respond when you ask them for this time or these rev ops leaders, how did they respond?
Ryan: You know, what was interesting is, is I think, um, at first they're wondering why was I wanting the time? And, and, and honestly, did I want something? And this is a big deal to me. I think there's a propensity in business right now for people to be inpatient. And to ask for too much too soon. And I once heard that if in new relationships, if you just give for the first year, it's so transformational for the long term relationship.
David: Hmm.
Ryan: so when I get on the phone, I'm trying to figure out how do I help their career? How do I, and I'm sending them all swag. I'm trying to figure out what can I do to add [00:08:00] value to their lives. And to them and showing that I truly want to understand their job and I care. It's been, it's made a huge difference versus I think some CEOs, and this is really when, when a CRO gets involved with customers too soon, lot of times they're asking too much and they're running the relationship thin. And so I've made a concentrated effort to give back to them and to show them that I'm not on the line. I think people are almost coming leery. When a leader asks for a call like that, like, Oh, what are they going to ask me for?
David: let's talk a little bit, I think it's important context to the rest of the conversation with full cast, you didn't start the company, you're not the founder, you are the CEO, you're the chairman. How did that come to be?
Ryan: Yeah, so, um, I, I knew that I wanted to get back in and run another company, but I, I didn't want to start at zero and you and I both know zero to 2 million. It's treacherous. It's [00:09:00] hard. It's a really difficult phase. And I thought if I can skip that step, myself and my founders will write the check to make that happen.
David: hmm,
Ryan: I knew I wanted to be in rev ops. You know how there's the moments in your career. That if you look back there, they're kind of like flagship moments. was for me in 2005, it was actually in sugar CRM. was working with a developer, Shelly Warren, and her and I were building these really cool, uh, like we were building chatbots.
We were building forecasting tools. We were building dialers before all these companies existed. And I was geeking out on the operational side of go to market. Back then, fast forward to 2008, I'm at AtTask, which became, uh, rebranded as Workfront and is now an Adobe company. was there and I got to spend the day at Salesforce with their leadership [00:10:00] because of OpenView Ventures. Blew my mind. I remember just thinking, this is like what we can do with the future of CRM and where it could go is incredible. So those moments shaped the space I looked into because I think it's really, really important as a CEO. we talk about the values have to align with us. Like we really have to believe them in our hearts and it has to be a part of us. I also think the company we run.
it
has
to
be something we're really excited about. And I think sometimes CEOs convince themselves that they're excited and they're not, and everyone knows it. so I knew that if I got in, besides looking at the total addressable market and the opportunity, I had to be a part of a company that I was excited about the problem we were solving.
So we started looking in rev ops. And as we got more and more down that road, what we saw is a lot of the software is focused on the [00:11:00] sales leader and the sales rep. And what made Fullcast really unique is, is focused on the RevOps leader. then the sales leader and the sales, the AEs are secondary, but it's the platform for the RevOps leader. And that differentiation, I knew we had to have that to scale. I also love that we were competing with the likes of an exactly and an Anna plan. And I was like, okay, they're 20 years old. It's right for disruption. We have lightweight SAS. Let's go after it. They validated the TAM. We know we like the differentiation.
Now let's go build a public company.
David: How long did it take you to find the right company? You know, and
Ryan: talking to VCs and sending emails and it was really difficult to find a company because was looking at it through the lens [00:12:00] of not just like a venture capitalist that's concerned about investing other people's capital because that was going to happen with my founders and other investors, but my own capital and a really large check from me personally. that meant a lot. And I knew I would be looking at my spouse having a really serious conversation the check. And so I took it really serious and it took a long time until I felt a deep conviction. just didn't go forward. We actually got close with a few companies and I just ultimately couldn't get there.
David: it's not just your money. I mean, it's your, your time, which at this point, you know, you're going, you're all in this point again. Um, maybe let's talk a little bit about team because now you've done this multiple times and you've been, you know, successful multiple times. And, and How do you go put together a [00:13:00] team to do something like this?
I mean, it's, it's, um, it is a little bit of a different approach. You know, you didn't start it, you didn't get brought in as CEO by the investors or something like that. Um, how, how did you put together the team that you wanted to do this with? Hmm.
Ryan: a experienced operator or entrepreneur has is we have a network of people that we know have come through for us time and time again. And I would recommend to any entrepreneur, I have a spreadsheet. I meticulously keep all the people I've met throughout my life. That stand out to me would like to work with. And I knew exactly who I was going to call and when, and I can tell you, as we grow the business at the different stages, getting people involved, I, I have an idea of who those people are. And so I think you really have to be thinking about that. If you're going to. Excel [00:14:00] as a CEO or an operator, you have to have those long term relationships. So I knew, uh, and I knew the first three that would be my co founders. I knew exactly who they were and, um, knowing my own weaknesses and strengths, uh, I knew how they could help me build the business long term. One thing that was different about this is I would say all three of my co founders are fully capable of being CEOs. They're capable of operating their own entities. And fascinatingly enough, every one of them raised more than 2 million in our round personally. And I allocated it to them and said, raise this. They all could raise their own seed rounds and operate their own businesses. And that's when I knew I'm like, this is a different kind of team. This is a team where they could all do my job. They can all raise their own money and capital. I mean, you think about that, how often could you think that you're, you had [00:15:00] three other people on your leadership team that could
raise the money for you?
David: Is that hard to get people who how do you convince people who could go be CEOs to join you? You know Well,
Ryan: Amy, My CMO and one of my co founders, got an offer from a much larger software company and it was north of a million dollar offer. And the CEO said, is Ryan the greatest salesperson on earth? And my reply was, it was just that we deliver for 10 years.
I've worked with her and I've kept my word. If I said, Hey, we're going to do this or we're going to make this much every time it's happened. And so what I would say is don't worry about selling, worry about delivering and the people will come and your talent level will just continue to rise to the entrepreneurs that are overselling people. [00:16:00] You're not playing the long game. Make sure that you're, you're Giving the right expectations and you're exceeding them. And I love, you know, there were some people that I wrote personal checks to after our exit. If it, and there was actually, then Kevin's to Kent Madsen, when there was, uh, at the end of our exit, uh, to Infosys, there was two people that had not vested that had an outsized impact and we fought to get all of their stock vested so we could exceed expectations. And so it hasn't been really difficult to recruit them only because we have delivered together as a team and the outcomes have always been better than they expected when we started.
David: I think also there is something About working with people that you trust And that you've done it with before, you know, I we did this exercise I remember with my leadership team with a third [00:17:00] party moderator and he said You know everyone close your eyes think about the best team you've ever been on And then think about what why that's the best team you've ever been on and pretty much everyone immediately went to a sports team that They were on basketball team or this or whatever and he said what's the number one reason and he started writing on two sides of?
The whiteboard and it was you know trust respect I mean people and this was a blind kind of exercise and at the end he said Did not a single person actually said skills they were that we had the best shooters We had the best and it was So that was for me a very even though you kind of know that innately When you go through that exercise and I think about like literally the best teams What I think is we knew the other one had our back.
We trusted them We knew that we worked well together. We had and I feel like in business. It's the same It's the same thing where in a lot of I mean the skills are of course really important but I Arguably, you trust [00:18:00] each other and you know that you're gonna be there for each other. You start to move in a way that I think is special.
Ryan: It is special because you can operate independently of each other and know what each other's going to do and move at a pace that you were never able to move out before because you've already made all these mistakes in prior ventures.
David: That's what I was gonna ask you. Is the pace much, is the pace much, much faster?
Ryan: I mean, I would say things we were doing in year four at Simplist, we're doing in our third quarter together.
David: Wow.
Ryan: the trajectory is pretty, think it, it'd be interesting to study from a
David: Yeah.
Ryan: perspective of just teams that have been together. Cause the thing about my three founders is we've all operated 10 years. So that's the other thing is, is we have a lot of time built up, a lot of reps. And then I would say that the biggest thing that I get from it, interestingly, is [00:19:00] when I get winded or when I'm tired, it's like, it's almost like you, you pass the baton and we're on the next leg and we're on that relay race. It's wild. we, we can grow, we can run so much faster because we spell each other out. It's very different than in my prior ventures. You also have to be more generous with the economics and the attention. That's where founders get so held back is they're so bent on being the founder or they want the economics to all go their direction. And you, the only way this model works is when they have big upsides. You'll find that late nights, early mornings, you're not alone anymore.
David: Hmm.
Ryan: you got like this robust team that's ready to run with you.
David: I think that point is so, so important. I, I've had a number of conversations with founders that I am working with, advising, investing in, who always asked me, why does this [00:20:00] person not care as much as I do? Why are they not, you know,
Ryan: Yes.
David: in the middle of the night doing this deck? And, and it's hard to explain, like, they're not the founders.
They don't have, you pay them a salary.
Ryan: Yeah.
David: have equity that. It's good, but it's not going to be game changing for that person and, and, and if they're not sharing in those economics, I mean, that's how people are going to turn down million dollar offers because they know that there's a much bigger opportunity and they'll grind for that because they're, they're, they're in it with you.
Ryan: It has to be a big upside at the end with those people. But I really think, um, the next generation of great startups, if people, um, even adventure capitalists look at founders and how many years they've been together, I think that would be a great predictor of success. So it, you know, cause if you think about it, [00:21:00] if you just meant that, right, there's a lot of risk, a lot of risk to what could go wrong. And do you work well together? Does it work? We don't know, but I think that if they have over five years working together, And they've had a kind of a prior exits and success. I got to believe the probability of success is dramatically higher. and I would pay up too, because I, the probability of success would be so much greater.
David: So let, let's talk about, you know, one of the things I think your sound pretty adept at is around fundraising and how to, how to find the right investors, how to structure equity, um, all of those things. I think at one point we were talking, you said, you know, you enjoy reading a term, like reading a term sheet is fun, is fun for you.
Um, which I don't think anyone's ever said that to me before. Um, can you talk a little bit about what. What your opinions are on, on how to [00:22:00] structure a company the right way from a cap table perspective, the good, the bad, just give, give me a little bit of that because I, we haven't actually talked about this on, on, on this podcast yet.
And I think it's actually a, a pretty critical thing, especially when you're early, cause it has so much knock on effect down the road.
Ryan: Yeah, so well said. So I would say to flip it on its head, you should look at your cap table as a tool or a strategy to build the business. So most people don't realize the power in their cap table. Um, I see many founders that aren't in communication with investors they're not, um, keeping them up to date.
They're not realizing that getting them as excited as customers and employees are important they're not keeping up the relationship with those investors. And they're also, um, not realizing all the different types of [00:23:00] investors out there. And the types of money to raise. We'll talk about the difference between venture capital and private equity or angel investors, but then the real breakdown is actually within those verticals. So there's so, if you have a corporate VC that's investing, That's different than an independent VC or who is their anchor LP? Is it at one big bank or is it a series of small angel investors with boat payments? You have to understand the details behind and interview the venture capitalists. If you want to understand how they're going to behave. In the boardroom and you have to be very thoughtful about the construct of your board, who's involved, when they're involved, the number of seats and who the board member is and how long you've known the board member. Entrepreneurs are way too flippant about it. They're celebrating in rounds. I will literally look at the round, the fun docs. I'll be an angel [00:24:00] investor and I'll think, oh, Series B, they're likely going to be replaced. And it's highly unlikely that if they aren't replaced, that they're not very uncomfortable in their job. And they're thinking, how do I either exit or I'm not having fun anymore. I, I'll literally read the docs. And feel kind of like while everyone's celebrating, I'll kind of feel bad.
David: I have so many questions about this. The best founders that you've seen in terms of, I love what you said about keeping investors as excited, like getting them excited like you would customers or partners or employees. The best founders that you've seen who do that, how, how do they do that?
Ryan: So I think one is making sure that they understand your product or service. It you'd be amazed how many investors, especially in the early stages, they may know you well, and they may be betting on you, but insist that they understand what you do [00:25:00] offer opportunities for them to see new product updates or demos. So we, we actually sent an email out just a month or so ago, inviting investors to come join for a demo to get to understand the new updates at Fullcast. they get forgotten about a lot and you don't realize that there's a lot of power to harness there. They're shareholders, they put hard earned money in, they want a reason to root for you.
You got to give it to them.
David: So, earlier in my career, um, I, I viewed investors, let's say as more of a burden, if I'm honest, than, you know, than, than what you're talking about. And it can be time consuming to do what you're talking about. Do you, do you do it once a week, month, quarter? How do you make, because I think, you know, I got advice from someone similar to you.
A lot of experience with a lot of companies. And he said, Dave, I'm, I'm giving you a strong recommendation to be in [00:26:00] constant update with the investors on a regular cadence. And I was like, man, this is so much work and so much time. But it does it does pay off in, in a good way. Multitude of ways down board meetings are better, you know, they're working for the fundraising is easier But how how often do you do it?
And is do you always do it? Does the CFO do it? You know, how do you handle that?
Ryan: Great questions. I think it's different for every company, but one thing that I would say is if you're going to do a live demo or you're going to demo or do a webinar, uh, loop them into it.
David: Some of you're already doing something you're already doing. Yeah, that's smart. That's smart. Hmm
Ryan: them and they may hop on.
And if anything, it makes it look like your webinar is more well attended anyway, to your prospects, but at the same time, you get to sell to your investors and help them see. What it is you're doing and get them more excited. The other thing is, and I'm only two [00:27:00] quarters in, so I've been trying to get my bearings at Fullcast, but my rhythm at Simplest was, uh, I would have our financials come out from our CFO and I would actually have our CFO do a call with everyone without me. Where they could ask any question they wanted with our CFO and go through kind of intimate financial details. And that would be a week before the board meeting. So then when we got on the board call, they had a whole week to answer all those kind of in the weeds financial questions and our board meetings became far more strategic. Because they were really up to date and it was a even deeper financial deck than the board deck. then the board deck allowed me to talk about, we were really inquisitive at Simplist, we did eight acquisitions. I was talking about opportunities, markets, I was having bankers, I was having other CEOs, I was having experts come into our board meetings and deliver big value. And it was transformational. We only had the time [00:28:00] to do that because we were doing all the small things to keep them informed. So the board meeting wasn't like a surprise meeting with a bunch of deep dives into financial metrics that nobody had seen before. And that's what a lot of entrepreneurs don't realize is you show up to the board meeting and don't realize that it was your preparation and communication beforehand that created the situation.
David: you basically do all the tactical, let's say, more in the weeds questions. So then the board meeting is actually a strategic conversation.
Ryan: Yeah,
David: Um,
Ryan: of operating a business is important I want them to cover that. But in that meeting where you have these strategic thinkers and if you have the right board of individuals that have already been where you want to go, you want that precious time to be discussing how you're going to make moves in the market. And I think it'll make you a much better CEO if you have that time. Yeah.
David: when you [00:29:00] think about, you know, this business and when I look at Fullcast, it seems like a project. I mean, to be frank, pretty full featured product. I mean, there's a lot. How much are you involved on the product side of the business? How in the weeds are you? How do you determine where to make those investments?
I know you're only a couple, two, three quarters in, but. It does feel like a pretty big plot. You're really building the RevOps platform from what I can see.
Ryan: Yeah.
David: And that's a big undertaking. Um,
Ryan: Yeah.
David: how do you think about product development and prioritization? Let's say,
Ryan: So a couple of things that are interesting. One, uh, I was up till 1 a. m. last night. I read every G2 review and then I sent a LinkedIn request to every one of them. And then I sent a personal message to every one of them and said, okay, what did you mean by this or this as the CEO? I want to understand. Everything I can from you about [00:30:00] your experience in the product. I sent a message, did not go to bed until I had messaged every one of them either in mail or connected to them. I dived deep and read every detail on those GT reviews. So I try to stay fresh on what do they want? interviewed every one of our customers. And then I've been interviewing leaders in the RevOps community. We brought together an advisory board of just experts in rev ops. So we have the head of rev ops for, you know, Citrix or Domo or Entrada or um, uh, CloudFlare, whatever it is.
David: wow.
Ryan: them join, and then I have a quarterly, two hour call independent on the board meeting where they're reviewing the roadmap. then they're looking at where our prioritization, and I want to do ruthless prioritization with them. Is this right now going to deliver value for you? So we're definitely putting this in front [00:31:00] of experts in
the States.
David: So you asked them to stack, right? You actually go to
those people and ask them to stack rank the capabilities.
Ryan: that's right. Because I don't want to spend one minute in a cycle that's not delivering ultimate value to our customer. So instead of me trying to interpret that or our, and even know our product leader, Bala and our founder, he was the rev ups leader at Salesforce, though he has a really good understanding, he's also has a really great mix of humility. And so he's out there. And really listening in that meeting, and he's the one presenting and I am just, it's nice as a CEO, because I'm just taking it in trying
to
David: Hmm.
Ryan: we're on
the right track.
David: I have made this mistake and been pretty public about it of having a very broad ideal customer profile, ideal buyer persona. I, we haven't talked about this, but I think from what you're saying, you, you, it sounds like the names you're talking about, [00:32:00] there's a pretty narrow scope. Is that a true statement?
Like, are you pretty narrow on, on those things?
Ryan: we were really tight on our ICP and it's really narrow, both on employee count, industry. All of that It we're, we're tied down and we're focused there. Um, I, the, one of the nice things about having the historical data, the previous founders, they actually had some investors push them to build a product for kind of the, the, the smaller size businesses. And the turn was. Outrageous. And if you think about strategy with RevOps of equitable territories, getting capacity right, a lot of those things are done in spreadsheets for five reps. The strategy and being able to really operationalize it comes at at least 50 reps. So, is impacted all of our metrics, focusing on the right ICP.
David: Someone [00:33:00] comes to you outside of that ICP or a rep is you know prospecting outside that ICP Is that something that you're how how tight do you
do you keep that
Ryan: There's no, we're not loose on that. If it's under 500 employees and under 50 reps, It's just, uh, a no. We've had one case where the leader was at Amazon and really understood. And there were 400 employees and understood exactly the value and was a former customer. But outside of that, I, I just, we've in a startup, I cannot stress how many founders, um, maybe don't realize how precious. The resources of time are, and any time we let, and we're not explicit with direction about where we're headed and why, if you even let weeks go by, [00:34:00] you're losing opportunity that is precious and could become a problem when it comes time to raise again.
David: I think this is the number one Mistake in my opinion I've made and that I think that I see first time Founders making is they feel like the ICP needs to be as big as possible Versus narrow as possible and then they end up great product for a 200 person company and then they get a 50, 000 person company coming to them.
They're like, oh 50, 000 people that's gonna be that's the deal that's gonna make the company now for the next two years We're gonna essentially build a roadmap to hope to close that 50, 000 and stop acquiring all the 200 I I have seen that I honestly, I would say a dozen times in the last six months where and And it's exactly this and I think it's only the people who've done it multiple times actually when you speak to them like no, [00:35:00] that's Tighter is better
Ryan: Yeah. t takes discipline and it's counterintuitive and it's really hard. And the other thing is, is you raise a bunch of dollars and And you can be subject to this complacency of saying, I got a ton of money. I can pursue all this mentally. We're just, we're also a little more, I think founders in general are going to be a little bit more positive. we're going to have, we're going to believe that it's all obtainable and you have to look at it more like a finite resource. And the other thing is, you have to understand you can get it later. You can expand And I actually think some of those habits start in college where everybody's always hitting on your total addressable market. They're constantly, and venture capitalists are always talking about total addressable market. And what I've found is you can grow your TAM as long as you have a niche that you're delivering for, the TAM can expand as you have more resources and [00:36:00] revenue. It's not like you have one opportunity in the beginning to go after the big TAM. can always grow to that, Tam,
David: Hmm.
Ryan: if you stay
directed and disciplined, you're more likely to succeed.
David: I specifically, I don't usually go into specific parts of the product and everything, but AI seems like a, just a cornerstone of what you're doing, obviously. Can you talk about that and how, because I, for me, as I look at a bunch of companies, I see a lot of AI, I Let's say feature products, you know, they're, they're not really like the, the,
they're not core to the product.
They're not really a platform. It's really a feature that should be part of something. How have you thought about was AI built in from day one? Was that a big part of the decision making process? Like, I just want to understand your thought process there.
Ryan: Yeah. Credit to our visionary, uh, co founder, uh, Bala. He was working on this long before we got involved. And so we're not, you know, uh, putting [00:37:00] makeup on a pig and, and, um, marketing it. We have, uh, some pretty incredible products around AI and I'll go through three of them. One is our co pilot. So once you set up your territories, one of the big complexities and difficulties with the spreadsheet is a RevOps team will build the territories in a spreadsheet.
They'll walk away. And for the year. You have all these accounts that change. You have reps that quit. They resign. You have reps that get promoted and it's a mess. And you, then you have this static spreadsheet from the beginning of the year. Nothing is still the same or very little. Now you got to go back and export, figure it out. Do the exercise over again. Instead with Fullcast, you have it managed with CoPilot. Our AI CoPilot automatically will update your territories as things are changing in real time.
So now you say, okay, this rep quit. Boom. We'll make the, we'll make the change based on the rules engine that was already set. So now no [00:38:00] one's thinking, Oh, was there quota leakage? Did we miss this opportunity? Did somebody not capitalize on it? It's just happening. So that's one way we're using AI. The second is we've created this, uh, this bot that is helping our customers learn the platform. So we've created an AI bot that will educate and it's condensing the time it takes to implement full cast and helps them get up to speed on their business.
The one is anywhere that we're, um, with our, with our new capacity planning, created some really cool things that make it so that you can look at different scenarios. And then with our smart plans, AI, you can actually say, here are the variables. Tell me how to do the territories.
David: Whoa.
Ryan: with AI, we can do the thinking for you and say, here's the optimal territories. That's a game changer. And that's where we're flipping things. [00:39:00] a
David: Hmm.
Ryan: way with AI.
David: let's go the other direction.
Tell me, the biggest challenge you've had, at Fullcast, which has been a short time or in general, you know, in your, in your career and, and what was that challenge and how'd you overcome that if you did?
Ryan: Yeah. So the the founders were really focused on the product and had built a pretty incredible product, but they had run through the venture capital. They were a tighter in cash and they were, uh, they were strapped for resources and they did not have the sales and marketing kind of firepower. So when we came in, there was no pipeline. And so it was like day one. We had to build the pipeline to get the business. Now we just had a record quarter and it was incredible result this last quarter. But we were pretty like, we, we came in, we were so stoked. We were like, Hey, we raised the money we're here. And then [00:40:00] everyone's like, okay, wait a minute. There's no pipeline. So, uh, immediately it was a fire drill to generate the pipeline necessary. We added 8 million in pipeline in the two quarters. And then we were like, okay, now, now we're in business. Um, and I still think we're probably half where, where we need to be. We'll exceed a hundred percent year over year growth. And I would expect us to continue to keep that pace. So we're going to have to generate a lot more pipe, but that was kind of like, And to be honest with you, I was not in CEO shape. So like I, I got in and I felt like mentally and emotionally and time wise, I was, I was in a pretty, you know, cushy position where I was chairing a few boards and that was, you know, 10 or 20 hours a quarter. And so all of a sudden it was like, no, you're, you're not just CEO. You're a startup CEO. You have to be kind of a maniac. And it's taken me six [00:41:00] months to ramp up. So I'd say those two things, one, the pipeline and two, had to mentally shift and get back in shape and get the habits back in place be the productive CEO. The company needed me to be.
David: that CEO shape is a really that's a good that's an important call out a lot of the people I talked to from the post exit founder group and from all the you know that that they all it's Whenever anyone goes back into it as much as you imagine yourself in good CEO shape and you you can do the long days and you can do back to back to back to back all day That's the, that's one of the number one things I hear from people as they get back into it is to get back in CEO shape no one's actually used that term, but I I can I can I can feel that and understand that because you just you get used to it just a completely different pace
Ryan: And all of a sudden, you know, you, you did the one thing that I underestimated is [00:42:00] you're making hundreds of small decisions, especially at the early stage now, when, when I was operating at the end towards simplest, I was probably making four or five big decisions that would change or impact the trajectory of the company annually. Now you're making that many every day. At least. And so you, you get thrown in and you get decision fatigue. You're not used to working that many hours. You realize you're a little bit older and you're like, okay, I got to be physically in shape. And so then I start looking at everything. How am I doing physically? How am I doing mentally? How have I balanced? Do I, am I meditating when I unplug? What do I do? What are my things that I enjoy that disconnect me from day to day? And I have to re kind of calibrate my life and figure out, and I think CEOs look at like my day as a CEO, and then they look at my day with, you know, [00:43:00] family or physical or emotional health separately. And I think we need to get to the place where we just see it as one thing. And how do we get in shape, CEO shape? For all those things and help our executives do the same.
David: Last question about full cast and I want to talk more about your background What are you most excited about for the future for the next year for the next couple of years at full cast?
Ryan: Well, one of the big things is, is I want to build an incredible RevOps community. I want to build a place where they get heard a place where they're not just unsung heroes, but they're getting recognized. I want to build, and, and we really have aspirations to build the go to market platform for the RevOps leader. And so over the next couple of years, we're I would love to see a community, uh, much like GainSight and Pulse for Fullcast around RevOps, that's a new role and they need a community. We want to deliver that community for them. I would [00:44:00] expect to see, you know, Fullcast, you know, Sunday ring the bell. I mean, that's our aspiration and that's what gets me up and excited. Um, that's the thing that I haven't done. And, you know, you look at all the various things you want to accomplish and check those boxes. what I want to do. Um, and I want to create a lot more wealth among my team and my employees, very focused on how we share the cap table and create more value in other people's lives.
David: I love that. Um, alright, let's talk about your background. Where are you from originally?
Ryan: So I grew up in a combination between Provo, Utah and Philadelphia. here's what's wild. So in Philadelphia, we were right outside the city. My dad was attending the university of Pennsylvania and I was listening to LL Cool J. Mom is going to knock you out. Pop goes the weasel and the weasel goes pop. I was break [00:45:00] dancing.
I was hanging out with my friends and, uh, I was having a great time and it was a very different, uh, you know, culture altogether. You move to Provo, Utah. And didn't have, I moved back in 92 and they didn't have a hip hop radio station for seven more years. So in 1999 was the first time you could listen to hip hop in Utah. So I'm humming songs. people are looking at me like, what is that? You know, people are listening to country music soft rock and, you know, kind of old school rock and roll. And here I am humming these songs in 99, suddenly I'm the prophet because the songs are finally real. Everybody sees what I'm talking about and they start enjoying the music. But I felt like a stark, just cultural shock in the system. of those [00:46:00] moves. But what it did for me is it helped me figure out how to recalibrate and start over and be kind of an underdog
David: Hmm.
Ryan: work
and how to work in lots of environments. You know, I was in very different friend groups in very different cultures, very different places. And I had to adapt. I, you know, I look back on that aspect of my childhood and I don't think I would be where I've been able to be had it not been for some of those big in my life.
David: And, and why, why make that move to Provo?
Ryan: So my
David: catalyst?
Ryan: my
my mom's originally, my mom and dad are originally from Provo
David: Got it.
Ryan: went to
attend the University of Pennsylvania for a master's program. And so we moved out there. With the expectation, we would eventually come back to Provo. but I had culturally become so part of [00:47:00] Philadelphia and the scene there that just about everything I was talking about, my language, the way I spoke and thought and everything was like, I just as well been an alien. Dropped into 1992 in Provo. It was, I can't even describe to you. I would have just flat out been in a different country. And so, yeah, but it was a good experience that I had to adapt to.
David: And where, where are you now? Where do you live now?
Ryan: I live in Salt Lake city, Utah, and I consider this my blend between Provo and Philadelphia. this is, I love it here because it has both worlds and I'm comfortable in both worlds. And I love being in Salt Lake. It's a beautiful place. I'm 10 minutes from being able to be on a trail in the mountains. I'm 10 minutes from being downtown, 15 minutes from the airport, 20 minutes from Park City and the slopes. I mean, it's very easy to get around it's a nice mid major city. So I really [00:48:00] like living here in Salt Lake.
David: And you're, you're a big champion of the tech scene there.
Ryan: time.
David: yeah, big, and I, everything I read, like you, you really promoted and you're, and it's been, from what I gather, I've already interviewed a couple of people from, from the Utah tech scene. It's, it's, it's been really successful. There's been a lot of big wins there.
Um, and many more to come. Why is, why do you think that's the case there?
Ryan: There's a few very different things about Utah. One is you have many people serving missions because of the religious aspect of
David: Hmm.
Ryan: And when you, like me, get sent to Florida at 19 you're wearing a long slur, a long sleeve shirt and a suit and riding a bike in a hundred degrees with a hundred percent humidity.
With people that have lived their faith, most of them for 50 or 60 years. You're 19 years old. Imagine how the [00:49:00] conversation goes and imagine how many doors you knock on as a 19 year old and imagine trying to convince someone to live an entirely new lifestyle. Now imagine yourself as an entrepreneur. How much easier does it sound? That is fundamentally why I think you have so many successful entrepreneurs that come out of Utah, because you go to a place where you have to push through mentally really difficult stuff. get to a place where you become unselfish because you spend all of your time looking for ways to help people and you don't have any other focus in your life. And so I think it matures people quicker. So they get an earlier start is one thing. The second is I always felt like if I could do that, if you, I actually remember being in a Wendy's. Eating, watching two salesmen come into a Wendy's with [00:50:00] some goofy toys, selling them to the Wendy's employees and thinking, that is the easiest thing I've ever seen in my life. Why couldn't I do something like that? I was on my mission and I remember, I mean, these guys were going door to door and I felt a sense of that looks so easy. how my mindset was.
David: Wow.
Ryan: then you wonder when
these entrepreneurs are coming out of Utah, they have a different mindset when they're younger, they get a start and they have a mindset that sets their trajectory. It's a little different. And we have more women now serving missions than men. So now you have a lot of women that are on that same kind of trajectory. Then you have a bunch of colleges and you have the youngest population in the United States. So it's a, it's, you kind of feel an energy when you come to Salt Lake, people are going for their dreams. You go to some areas and it's very relaxed. And laid back Salt Lake is not laid back. [00:51:00] People want to succeed Salt Lake.
David: when you think about your career in general, has there been someone, did you have a mentor or, uh, an advisor or, uh, board, some person that you, like, that was instrumental in your, in your success or your evolution? Yeah, yeah, that's a good. Hmm. Hmm.
Ryan: is, is at different stages, different people had big impacts on my life. Don't you think that's how it is? So if you look back, I think like early in my career, it's just evolved to maybe five or six different people. One person, uh, in the last few years that I would call in situations where I was trying to solve a difficult problem is Jeremy Andrus, the CEO of Traeger Grills. Um, he's extremely smart, but more than that, He, um, really [00:52:00] has been an operator a long time and he's put a lot of thought and he's as passionate as I am about the process of building great companies. He built Skullcandy and then built Traeger, both public companies. He's an excellent operator. And, um, before that, when we were building Simplist, David of CloudSherpa, he gave me some solids that were saved me.
I think we saved years on our trajectory because of some of these. Mentors and some of these people, I cannot say enough. It's so important that as an entrepreneur, we're humble enough. not be the entrepreneur that has great stories about going through dark forests and figuring it out. I think we stop with that and we just find out who's done it and we listen.
You're great at that. I, I've seen you, you, you listen really well and you ask a lot of questions of other entrepreneurs and you're really curious. And I think that's what makes you a great [00:53:00] entrepreneur. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs lose precious years Because they don't ask enough questions to the people that have been there before them.
David: I think the most important thing you just I thank you for that. And I think the most important thing you you said there for people to hear is this committee And you've always had someone maybe a different person at different stages but you've always had that person or a group of people that you could call on and I Think that that's important because I think a lot of people feel like oh just in the early stage I'll get that advisor to help me, but then i'll know how to do it all and it's the reality is You know you you know Each stage is a different set of challenges and you want the person who's seen around that corner who's, who's been there.
And I, I think that's really important that even for you at the stage that you're at and the experience that you have, you still are calling on people who have seen the next stage to get help.
Ryan: Yeah. And I think you have to be thoughtful about figuring out who's [00:54:00] ahead of you and figuring out how you get in contact with them. And that needs to be a strategy as you're a
David: Hmm.
Hmm.
Ryan: take the time
to thoughtfully figure out. And it goes back to what I said before, like with Jeremy, I, um, when I first met him, I interviewed him for Forbes. Years ago, wrote an article about him. I found out that he loved BYU football. So I found some classic BYU, um, different like swag and things signed by players and, and provided him, I spent. Thousands of dollars sending him things. And I was committed to providing value to him because I knew that he could help me on that next stage. So that's the other thing is them value. Don't ask for anything and try to add value for a year. just keep delivering more value to them. And then long term, it's amazing the relationship you can create and the benefit that it will create in your life.
David: [00:55:00] you know, you talked before about you want to go public at some point, ring the bell. Some of you haven't done before. Um, What is it that motivates you even deeper, you know, you talked about building wealth Like is there something else that motivate like deep deep down to your core? You've been doing this for a long time with a lot of companies, but you know, you don't need to do it anymore Is what what I guess what is the driving factor behind all of this?
Like why why achieve that? Why what what what drives you?
Ryan: Major shift in my life, uh, about 10 years ago. And one thing I realized is I love winning with a team and the process of creating a great team that is world class. Get building a beautiful business. That process I love seeing other people. When I look back on Simplist, it wasn't when I received a deposit on the exit. It was when someone called me in tears who said, Hey, I paid off my kids college [00:56:00] and we got a, we paid off all of our 401ks and I'm a first generation kind of college student and this changed my life. I mean, I, I have literally rehearsed in my mind, those calls. so for me that I'll, I'll play that call in my mind when I need to get that fire, because I know I'm playing for that person. And there's a lot of people that are going to come to full cast that their lives are going to change. And I hope it's thousands of people that are able to come and the trajectory of their life, there was a couple of people I remember who started with Simplest, I remember detailed stories where they're like, I just got divorced. was down on my luck. I didn't know where I was going to go career wise. And now I'm remarried. I'm a millionaire. I've never felt better. I mean, it's like, it's like cheating and living life when you can create something from nothing and share it. The one thing I would say to entrepreneurs is you're missing out on the best [00:57:00] part of entrepreneurship.
If you're not sharing the economics. That the satisfaction that comes with that is incredible. And there's only so much you can do economically, personally, there comes a point where, what are you going to do? Like that you run out of socks on Amazon. You have a, you have a nice house. You, you, you can take a warm bath.
You have any clothes you want. You're you're the vehicle you, you use for transportation's great. It's a certain point where you have to ask yourself, how much more do you need before you can share the economics with other people? so that's for me, that satisfaction of seeing people's lives change.
I'm really bought into that. I also want to win with my team and I am a competitor, I get my juices flowing pretty easily when I start looking at competitors, it's something since I was a little kid, I've been, I had to actually train myself to back off as a kid in sports because I didn't want to ruin [00:58:00] all my friendships. I had to, I mean, it was a big blind spot. I was like, I was like, man, I go too hard. I, I, I see scenes with people like a Kobe or Jordan and I see how they get really, they get, they lose themselves in it. I have that ability. I have to step myself back and with maturity, it's gone inward. And I just feel it on the inside.
And it's like, okay, check it's motivation. Now we're going to manifest it in the right way. The younger me. Was letting that intensity come out outwardly too much.
David: that's the drive right that at the end of the day that that's really Deep deep down. That's what's driving You know
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, to, to be honest, like I'll see something online. A G2 review, a LinkedIn post from a competitor, and that will be enough to send me up until three in the morning I can't stop. So that [00:59:00] that's, that's, the truth behind the scenes. And I think some people are like, you know, what do you have to be like to be a successful entrepreneur?
You have to be like that. You have to be a bit obsessive. And you have to be very tenacious and you have to be very, very driven. Otherwise you'll give up on the dream. It's
way too,
David: hmm.
Ryan: way too many reasons up.
David: last question for you if you could go back to the beginning of your career Um knowing everything, you know today and give yourself one piece of advice. What would that what would that advice be?
Ryan: It's your direction that's most important, not your speed. I always, um, focused on speed, but if I would have slowed down and focused on direction, like some of the things we talked about, which was the ICP The differentiation, getting the delivery right to the customer, whether it's a product or service, slowing down and making sure that I'm pointed in the right direction. [01:00:00] I would just charge forward and believe that it would work out.
David: Hmm
Ryan: And I believe now I'm more, um, I'm more surgical and methodical, and then I don't waste any time or effort. it's almost like when you look at LeBron right now, later in his career, it's like he might not be as athletic, but he knows exactly his, his basketball IQ is off the charts. I hope that that's what I can do is my, my IQ from an entrepreneurial
David: Hmm
Ryan: continues to increase. And I'm able to do more with less, but that's what I, cause I'll tell you, I got into some serious problems with cashflow and things early in my career because I didn't realize that you actually have to manage growth. I grew faster, even though we were profitable, cash flows went upside down because we weren't collecting as fast as we were spending. And I didn't understand that. so in my twenties, I went through all these painful cash [01:01:00] crunches and almost going out of business because I was not slowing down and being strategic.
David: Ryan, uh, before, before we close up, where, where can people connect with you? What's the best platform to connect with you? Where can they find out more about Fullcast?
Ryan: Definitely on LinkedIn, connect with me on LinkedIn and fullcast. com. Uh, excited to engage with all of you. Please message me on LinkedIn.
David: Awesome. Ryan, thank you. This, this was, uh, this was a lot that we packed into an hour and a lot of lessons. And to be honest, you kind of have me fired up and ready to go again. So, um, this, this has been awesome. Thank you for making the time to talk to me.
Ryan: Thank you. Uh, incredible interview. Appreciate it.
David: Thank you. Thank you. Well, for everyone listening, I hope you enjoyed. And, um, there, there really is so much to learn from this conversation. And, um, I, I urge you to connect with, with Ryan. He's probably more busy than he used to be, but I'm sure he'll respond to you. And, uh, thank you so much. And until the next episode of Not [01:02:00] Another CEO Podcast.
Thank you very much.
